Message boards : Number crunching : Please HELP the Volunteers to avoid wasting Time and Resources
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Profile Yeti
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Message 32135 - Posted: 29 Aug 2017, 13:46:02 UTC
Last modified: 29 Aug 2017, 13:46:54 UTC

Hi Projektteam,

I have a great problem with your concept and need your help !

As Atlas doesn't have work I decided to allow my clients to run one of your different VM-Projects, for now LHCb.

12 WUs have been downloaded and have started to crunch on my computer.. HM, crunch ? No, they are only sleeping as it seems, they don't get work from your server(s). So, they finish after something 10 - 15 minutes.

My pain now is: Do you really have no work for LHCb or is it a problem on my side ?

Normally, a user can look on the Server-Status-Page and see if there is work available, but this doesn't work for all your VM-Apps without Atlas.

So, my request is: Show us on a central page which sub-projekt has really work and is worth to get Resources. Best would be to see it on the BOINC-Server-Status-Page, but nontheless it can be a CERN-Status-Page.

And please, make it easy to get and understand this information. I'm a volunteer and I don't want to study a CERN-Handbook to get this information.

You are wondering why volunteers don't accept your VM-Applications ? Now, this is one important point


Supporting BOINC, a great concept !
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Harri Liljeroos
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Message 32136 - Posted: 29 Aug 2017, 14:03:45 UTC

There are these pages that usually gives some information whats happening with subprojects.
LHCb: https://lhcathomedev.cern.ch/lhcathome-dev/lhcb_job.php (graphics are not unfortunately showing currently)
ATLAS: https://lhcathome.cern.ch/ATLAS/atlas_job.php
CMS: https://lhcathomedev.cern.ch/lhcathome-dev/cms_job.php

And then there is this page which I am not sure what it shows: http://mcplots-dev.cern.ch/production.php?view=status I have been thinking that this is about Theory but I am not sure. Can somebody help about this?
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Profile Yeti
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Message 32137 - Posted: 29 Aug 2017, 14:41:26 UTC

These are interesting sites and I like them very much.

But do they really show me that there is really work ready to download for my PCs or not ?


Supporting BOINC, a great concept !
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Message 32138 - Posted: 29 Aug 2017, 15:04:37 UTC - in response to Message 32135.  

I fully agree to Yeti's post.

Months ago I learned from this thread - especially Laurence's post - that there is a switch the admins can use to stop the "automagically" production of empty WUs.
This works for ATLAS as everybody could see during the last days and it worked for CMS a while ago when WMAgent was updated.
In addition the admins of both subprojects actively participate in this MB to provide relevant information to their volunteers.

Unfortunately LHCb is a very silent subproject. There are periods of a couple of days where no work is available but nobody hits that switch nor does anybody writes a short note.
Is this a sign of missing respect?
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Message 32140 - Posted: 29 Aug 2017, 16:36:46 UTC
Last modified: 29 Aug 2017, 16:43:46 UTC

Yes, of course I agree.
When you lose confidence that a project is using your machine effectively, you tend to drop it when higher-priority work comes along. I hope that all the CERN apps remain a high priority with me. But I am building a new Ryzen machine, and I have to rethink how it will be used. Please keep up the good work.

NOTE: Fortunately the time lost for LHCb is relatively short, so there is no need for me to change anything yet. But it would be better to fix it before it might become a problem later.
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Harri Liljeroos
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Message 32141 - Posted: 29 Aug 2017, 17:45:55 UTC - in response to Message 32137.  

These are interesting sites and I like them very much.

But do they really show me that there is really work ready to download for my PCs or not ?


I do agree with you that the information about the availability of the jobs should be visible on the Boinc server status page. These pages do not exactly show what we want, I just provided the links for those who may have missed them previously. I think that Cern and LHC@home are such a big ship that getting this request through may take some time. I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting. But without the pressure from us, the users, it may take even longer.
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Message 32142 - Posted: 29 Aug 2017, 22:48:36 UTC

Have read today in a German serious newspaper, that in Atlas 13 collisions from 4 Billion where from interesting to find something new.
This is from the year 2015.
The search will be doing again in the next Generation HL 2018 of the 27 km ring.

So, this is a realy great project and we are a very small part as volunteers to take part.
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David Cameron
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Message 32145 - Posted: 30 Aug 2017, 8:01:36 UTC

ATLAS works in a slightly different way from LHCb and CMS. All three experiments have their own central task scheduler for the whole computing grid. LHCb and CMS WU are kind of dummy tasks which contact the central scheduler and download the real task. In ATLAS we have an intermediate component which collects tasks from the central scheduler and defines WU with these tasks, which means the WU will always have real work to do. It also means that if there is no work in the central scheduler (like today) there are no WU pushed into the BOINC scheduler. Hope this helps to explain the differences you see between the sub-projects.
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Message 32215 - Posted: 4 Sep 2017, 12:23:25 UTC - in response to Message 32138.  

The brake works with CMS but not quite with LHCb. We will try to address this.
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Profile Nils Høimyr
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Message 32216 - Posted: 4 Sep 2017, 12:34:52 UTC - in response to Message 32215.  

Right now we have a general infrastructure issue in the CERN computer centre, no new tasks sent.
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Message 32218 - Posted: 4 Sep 2017, 12:46:20 UTC - in response to Message 32215.  

The brake works with CMS but not quite with LHCb. We will try to address this.

This will be a step forward, but could only be a step on the highway to TOP-Information.

As Theory, CMS and LHCb are all depending on JOBS they download during the defined runtime of the BOINC-Container-WU, it would be helpful for us Users, that we get an information how many CERN-Jobs are available for each of this sub-projects.


Supporting BOINC, a great concept !
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Message 32219 - Posted: 4 Sep 2017, 12:48:15 UTC - in response to Message 32215.  

Laurence wrote:
The brake works with CMS ...

Yes, the Status Page shows 0 CMS WUs.
+1

Laurence wrote:
... not quite with LHCb. We will try to address this.

Thank you.
What about Theory?
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Message 32228 - Posted: 4 Sep 2017, 15:29:00 UTC - in response to Message 32219.  

What about Theory?


Should work for that too.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Please HELP the Volunteers to avoid wasting Time and Resources


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