Message boards : Number crunching : Gridcoin / Stats?
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John Masone

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Message 46224 - Posted: 11 Feb 2022, 7:22:55 UTC

Hi
Does this project have any plans on correcting whatever the stats issues was so it can get back on the Gridcoin Whitelist again? That would be great if so, LHC was my favorite project by far on BOINC and I'd love to get back in to it.
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computezrmle
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Message 46225 - Posted: 11 Feb 2022, 7:32:52 UTC - in response to Message 46224.  

the stats issues

What stats issues do you mean?
Sites like boincstats show up to date statistics from this project.
https://www.boincstats.com/stats/3/project/detail/
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John Masone

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Message 46229 - Posted: 11 Feb 2022, 14:30:00 UTC - in response to Message 46225.  

From what I understand, there is a bug in the stats system LHC uses that makes it possible to cheat, thus gridcoin had to drop support for LHC until the bug gets fixed. I don't know the details on this bug but I can probably get details if anyone is interested in trying to fix it.
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computezrmle
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Message 46230 - Posted: 11 Feb 2022, 15:06:32 UTC - in response to Message 46229.  

If it's the way credits are calculated I doubt anybody from LHC@home will change this.
LHC@home uses the default credit calculation built into the BOINC server.
If a 3rd party (e.g. Gridcoin) has problems with it they may submit a BOINC change request.
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Greger

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Message 46424 - Posted: 4 Mar 2022, 17:38:08 UTC - in response to Message 46230.  

Correct we have have an issue but it is a general issue with server options that serve "credit new". In all this good for boinc purpose of distribution of credit based on effort time that is put into task.

I would like to refer to my post at github ( https://github.com/gridcoin-community/Gridcoin-Tasks/issues/245 ) but admit that addition issues is not upfront/clear but users on projects would be fully aware that not hard to exploit credit system as it is to LHC today (if not changed).

I have been since start to Atlas and when vLHC was in beta and follow project well and been happy as it is and used native cvmfs along with squid for many years to avoid virtualbox. Issue started when theory allow 32 threaded task meanwhile virtulabox only support 16 threads. The way to trick system was only to lock threads and keep high memory to vm as memory was big factor of multiplier to unit of calculate the credits. This some part also to Atlas today and issue have been when you locked to one thread to these units.

Each application of vm have it's own way to operate and long runners make hard to change and reward fairly and not clear or an easy issue to solve. Users that put in a large effort of not just runtime but also cputime should get reward for it. And this a part of creditnew do great for this project but easy to trick for more experienced users. But there are few keys downsides on this and a big factor and abuse is the fpops_est that open up for users to boost credit on task of 10-20 task before it is adjusted on hosts.

When i monitor host before greylist to Gridcoin a host was up to over 1000 burned hosts with script of new created instance of boinc-clients. I monitor jobs done from vm on these and stated to have done 5-3 jobs instead of of around possible 100 jobs to theory. IN all vm continue without issues and lack of validation of jobs for work done. This main issue to LHC and could be prevented on there side that collect data.

On boinc github there is great suggestion on wrapper to vbox and community have also react to to contribute for better solution to validate work Please review work from ILikeChocolate and paper is linked at https://boinc.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=14538#106759

In all this an effort could be done to solve issue to LHC if they used work around of credit system they use today or validate work better. This might be in great demand to gridcoin but affect ALL using boinc with or without any reward on top of it.
Gridcoin only read stats of RAC (avg work done) it does not affect boinc affect project directly but wide range of users that could help with or without grc. When co-lations/datacenter take over the project the opportunity for is lost and would on high value to stay open to people and scientist to being able to project as they like.

I would like give special thanks to you computezrmle to help users and commit to github and backend to LHC. It's been great time follow progress and hope admins could do same to project as you have done.
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Chooka
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Message 46431 - Posted: 8 Mar 2022, 19:02:38 UTC

Why don't people just join a REAL team instead of Gridcoin!
I have no sympathy for anyone who's a part of Gridcoin and it isn't working. BOINC should be "volunteer computing", not paid :/

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Message 46436 - Posted: 13 Mar 2022, 16:19:02 UTC - in response to Message 46431.  

Why don't people just join a REAL team instead of Gridcoin!


[This would be off topic and sorry about that]
You are free to do what you want and think what is best for you i would support that but in another view on it:
Why do people join team under country name? I don't get why they should support a country when it doesn't have any relation to BOINC or project?
I am an individual man a true volunteer user in view to BOINC and projects and it will remain be so. Specially in this time with happen with invasion Ukraine and Russia. Would you support a country by day of what happen or what government choose to do? I would not support any country put any relation of actions to a country.
Why not make team for your self and show that you support science and project only?
I would support team for open solution and community driven system with where blockchain have best use more then just credit (that do share evenly today.

I have no sympathy for anyone who's a part of Gridcoin and it isn't working. BOINC should be "volunteer computing", not paid :/


A reward back from what i offset in power and hardware and time for science is future to expand and continue. Today all it is supported behind donations or company or organisations to keep it alive and volunteers keep dropping and much due to high bills and lower development. Many project struggle to keep servers online and may not be able to upgrade or replace bad hardware.
So even put your support on that from reward from reward you earned.

I would start my journey as a volunteer and keep supporting projects that i like with or without a team or Gridcoin. I am users for them but for my self a contributor directly to science without any organisation involved or any company relation to country or government or whatever between me or project. "They" or those people that would be a middleman better be someone or something that truly do not gain of me or science i do to project. I choose what it best for me and what i choose to support and so accept others to do the same.
It is an options/opportunity i take as an individual user back off in some cases to groups and teams to not be related in things that i would not support. So it is fine that people do the same to Gridcoin in my view.
I try to avoid mentions Gridcoin to project or other BOINC forums but in this case with this thread it mentioned as it was discussed inside gridcoin community and i am sorry for that and if other people do not see us as true volunteer i think they are wrong but i accept there thought. This why it could harm project or offend people that do want to a part of it and will respect that. But also see it from other side and try to understand how they will see it.

In view of challenges and teams and other groups that support and involve politics or religions or relation to governments would not be good and could create a unnecessary conflict that we do not need to BOINC or projects. But i only respect it for what it is and only my view so respect users support it.

I started with folding and moved to boinc before gridcoin and end my journey the same goal in my mind but never let politics, religion, groups or something else be apart. I will keep walking as long as i can and if found some shoes on way that are not used i be happy to use it to help myself on journey.

You choose what to do but make sure keep head up so you can proved of actions you do when look back in time or mirror. It is all up to you an don't let anyone take it from you.

[It will be my last post for this keep it on topic]
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Message boards : Number crunching : Gridcoin / Stats?


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