Message boards : Number crunching : Work almost done?
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Profile Miska

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Message 12195 - Posted: 20 Jan 2006, 18:14:03 UTC

are we running out of work soon? As you can see works ready to crunch is decreasing quite rapidly
(yesterday over 300000 and now 177701).
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Message 12196 - Posted: 20 Jan 2006, 18:58:52 UTC - in response to Message 12195.  
Last modified: 20 Jan 2006, 18:59:08 UTC

Good Observation! I do not know. Maybe?

are we running out of work soon? As you can see works ready to crunch is decreasing quite rapidly
(yesterday over 300000 and now 177701).


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Message 12199 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006, 0:57:06 UTC - in response to Message 12195.  

are we running out of work soon? As you can see works ready to crunch is decreasing quite rapidly
(yesterday over 300000 and now 177701).



I've noticed that as well, now down to about 158,000. Even if it goes dormant again for a few weeks it's been a pleasure to be able to participate in the projects, just wish I could participate in the LHC Alpha too.
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Message 12200 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006, 0:57:06 UTC - in response to Message 12195.  
Last modified: 21 Jan 2006, 0:57:49 UTC

Ignore, finger twitched when I went to click on Post Reply.
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Desti

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Message 12201 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006, 1:17:09 UTC

I'm sure > 50 % of that units are not done yet, because they were eaten by monster caches. 0_o
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 12213 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006, 13:17:04 UTC

The historical pattern is to have "waves" of work, where a couple hundred thousand work units will be created and mostly issued, then another wave, if any, is added. After all the main waves have been issued and mostly returned, the "clean up" runs for a little bit where smaller batches are scavenged of work that is still incomplete (no quorum).
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John McLeod VII
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Message 12238 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006, 23:26:51 UTC

Then there is a downtime of a few days / weeks, and more is issued. I suspect that this pattern will continue until the construction is complete. At which point, I hope that we will be given some of the particle tracks to follow.


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Message 12246 - Posted: 22 Jan 2006, 1:36:14 UTC - in response to Message 12213.  

The historical pattern is to have "waves" of work, where a couple hundred thousand work units will be created and mostly issued, then another wave, if any, is added. After all the main waves have been issued and mostly returned, the "clean up" runs for a little bit where smaller batches are scavenged of work that is still incomplete (no quorum).


It leaves those who have done work waiting some weeks to pick up those last credits :D
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Message 12259 - Posted: 22 Jan 2006, 14:00:57 UTC - in response to Message 12238.  

Then there is a downtime of a few days / weeks, and more is issued. I suspect that this pattern will continue until the construction is complete. At which point, I hope that we will be given some of the particle tracks to follow.


How the hell would they be able to convert 1.2 gigabytes/s of work into to several kilobytes for us to be able to work. The work unti would pile up to much. Thats why they are creating the Grid. It can handle that kinda crazy power out put.

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Message 12264 - Posted: 22 Jan 2006, 14:59:11 UTC - in response to Message 12259.  

[How the hell would they be able to convert 1.2 gigabytes/s of work into to several kilobytes for us to be able to work. The work unti would pile up to much. Thats why they are creating the Grid. It can handle that kinda crazy power out put.

Which is exactly what BOINC is ... a grid computing solution.

I have the room on disk, I have 9 reasonably fast computers, the cost is right, the only question is if this is the way they want to do the work... I think that if the DID start, and allowed more sign-ups ... we would continue to grow ... many don't do LHC@Home because the work is so intermittent ...
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Message 12270 - Posted: 22 Jan 2006, 17:02:26 UTC

And the deadline is too short...
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Message 12286 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006, 3:20:11 UTC - in response to Message 12270.  

And the deadline is too short...

It is what the project needs/desires ... not what we would like ...
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Message 12287 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006, 3:23:40 UTC - in response to Message 12264.  

[How the hell would they be able to convert 1.2 gigabytes/s of work into to several kilobytes for us to be able to work. The work unti would pile up to much. Thats why they are creating the Grid. It can handle that kinda crazy power out put.

Which is exactly what BOINC is ... a grid computing solution.

I have the room on disk, I have 9 reasonably fast computers, the cost is right, the only question is if this is the way they want to do the work... I think that if the DID start, and allowed more sign-ups ... we would continue to grow ... many don't do LHC@Home because the work is so intermittent ...


-----------------------------------------------

I looked in the top 100 stats for boinc. Out of the top 100 crunchers crunching for more than one project, less than 5 were donating time to LHC. Of those users, most were donating less than 10 percent of their resources. WOW! Interesting to me!

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Message 12288 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006, 3:36:06 UTC

Yeah, and I probably fell off the list ...

I seemed to have dropped 12 in world position in just the last week ...

And I am ONLY giving LHC 21.61% ... it would be more if I was not trying to get EAH over SETI ... if I had REAL confidence that LHC would become a more "steady" project I would probably have given more here ... but, I don't have hopes I could realistically get enough work to get LHC over SETI before they run out of work ...

And, so, i do other projects a lot too ...
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Message 12301 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006, 11:29:50 UTC

HM, I'm participating in nearly all BOINC-Projects.

When LHC sends work, I switch all other projects to "no new work". So, if LHC has work, my boxes concentrate on LHC :-)



Supporting BOINC, a great concept !
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Message 12314 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006, 16:25:28 UTC - in response to Message 12301.  

HM, I'm participating in nearly all BOINC-Projects.

When LHC sends work, I switch all other projects to "no new work". So, if LHC has work, my boxes concentrate on LHC :-)

I just set it and forget it. I usually build up LTD in the outages and therefore normally have work when it is available.
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Message 12326 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006, 19:29:36 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jan 2006, 19:30:58 UTC

If LTD is the same as <debt>, then at least 4.19 does not increase it while no work is available. I'm attached to Orbit for quite some time now and never had anything but 0.000 in the <debt> entry. Same for SZTAKI while it didn't give me work, it went to 0.000 and stayed there.
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Message 12328 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006, 21:03:23 UTC - in response to Message 12301.  

HM, I'm participating in nearly all BOINC-Projects.

When LHC sends work, I switch all other projects to "no new work". So, if LHC has work, my boxes concentrate on LHC :-)


Me too =D Mind you, there is now less than 15k WU left :'(
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Message 12332 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006, 22:08:48 UTC - in response to Message 12326.  

If LTD is the same as <debt>, then at least 4.19 does not increase it while no work is available. I'm attached to Orbit for quite some time now and never had anything but 0.000 in the <debt> entry. Same for SZTAKI while it didn't give me work, it went to 0.000 and stayed there.

4.19 was before the split between Short Term Debt and Long Term Debt. What was used in 4.19 is Short Term Debt and was called Debt.


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Message 12348 - Posted: 24 Jan 2006, 6:15:31 UTC - in response to Message 12326.  

If LTD is the same as <debt>, then at least 4.19 does not increase it while no work is available. I'm attached to Orbit for quite some time now and never had anything but 0.000 in the <debt> entry. Same for SZTAKI while it didn't give me work, it went to 0.000 and stayed there.


With the latest clients LTD behaves differently depending if +ve or -ve.

Large -ve debt means a project gets temporarily barred from seeking work, in effect it has had more than its fair share in the past. This will reduce to zero as the other projects work through their +ve debt, irrespective of whether the barred project has work.

If you think about this it is obvious - if the client is not asking project X for work it doesn't know there is none.

When the debt is close to zero or greater than zero, the project starts asking for work, and LTD then does not increase further whether there is work or not. LTD only increases past zero when *other* projects start hogging the cpu in EDF mode.

I guess what John Keck is seeing is that his computers download enough LHC units to go into EDF and build up a negative debt while there is work, and that the gaps in LHC work allow debt to "rise" back to zero.

Or just maybe he is using an old client - there was at least one release where the debt went on rising past zero when there was no work - a behaviour I preferred but apparently others shouted it down so it got changed (but that is a different argument)

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