Message boards : Number crunching : Is there actually going to be some work?
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Message 3463 - Posted: 10 Oct 2004, 19:24:04 UTC

....Because I'm just going to quit all BOINC projects at this rate. I have been part of SETI@Home, Predictor@Home, CPDN, and this one. All have played up miserably.

Now my question is:

Will we actually get some work? My PC's are just idle, I could just leave my laptop unplugged off the network if there isn't any.
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Message 3464 - Posted: 10 Oct 2004, 19:27:17 UTC - in response to Message 3463.  

just out of cusriosity... what issues do you have with CPDN?

> ....Because I'm just going to quit all BOINC projects at this rate. I have
> been part of SETI@Home, Predictor@Home, CPDN, and this one. All have played up
> miserably.

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Message 3465 - Posted: 10 Oct 2004, 19:34:53 UTC
Last modified: 10 Oct 2004, 19:35:10 UTC

By the way, if you had read the LHC@home description (last paragraph) before posting here, you'd know that there isn't always going to to be a constant stream of work. That's the beauty of BOINC. You can join many projects that run when the other projects don't have any work.
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Message 3466 - Posted: 10 Oct 2004, 19:38:19 UTC - in response to Message 3465.  
Last modified: 10 Oct 2004, 19:40:06 UTC

> By the way, if you had read the <a> href="http://athome.web.cern.ch/athome/LHCathome/whatis.html">LHC@home
> description[/url] (last paragraph) before posting here, you'd know that there
> isn't always going to to be a constant stream of work. That's the beauty of
> BOINC. You can join many projects that run when the other projects don't have
> any work.
>
>

But what if you dont WANT to join a bunch or projects? The only ones Im interested in with regards to BOINC are Predictor@Home [which Ive pretty much given up on] and this one [which has been down more than up since I joined].

Seems to me there isnt a reliable BOINC project to choose [except for CPDN which I have no interest in]....

With all the non-BOINC projects out there, Im starting to wonder why I tried BOINC...my systems are more idle now than they used to be. I didnt start using BOINC for the "convenience of running multiple projects". I just want one or two that can run for more than 2 days at a time....

Spectre

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Message 3468 - Posted: 10 Oct 2004, 20:10:13 UTC - in response to Message 3464.  

> just out of cusriosity... what issues do you have with CPDN?
>
> > ....Because I'm just going to quit all BOINC projects at this rate. I
> have
> > been part of SETI@Home, Predictor@Home, CPDN, and this one. All have
> played up
> > miserably.
>
>
>

Extremely bad performance. 7.5s/TS on my notebook, and 6.5s/TS on my Duron. Other projects my systems to MUCH better than they did on CPDN. I may just start SETI@Home again, as it seems to be the only one I am interested in and actually has work.
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Profile Markku Degerholm

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Message 3471 - Posted: 10 Oct 2004, 20:35:24 UTC

You will definitely have some work. Just when and how much, that's a question.

I admit that maybe we allowed too many users to join. We really underestimated computing power of the current user base and overestimated our supply of work.

However, the more users, the faster we can help science go further.



Markku Degerholm
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Message 3472 - Posted: 10 Oct 2004, 20:38:58 UTC - in response to Message 3471.  

> You will definitely have some work. Just when and how much, that's a question.

Any idea "when" we will have some then?

My Duron system was just able to download ONE WU, and seems to be processing it well.
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Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr

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Message 3481 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 0:03:44 UTC
Last modified: 11 Oct 2004, 0:04:35 UTC

Well, I just uploaded my last WU almost 2 hours ago. Good thing there's CPDN, (which takes forever) and SETI@Home, which is having more than their fair share of problems. Watch for a new BOINC core client to come out.

L8R....

---




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Message 3482 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 0:45:39 UTC - in response to Message 3466.  

> But what if you dont WANT to join a bunch or projects? The only ones Im
> interested in with regards to BOINC are Predictor@Home [which Ive pretty much
> given up on] and this one [which has been down more than up since I joined].

You should not give up on Predictor... rather, give up on Dell since that is the biggest reason why they aren't back up yet. Dell has taken over a month to get their new server shipped. (and I don't think it is out of the door yet) I believe their upgrade to BOINC v4 and new science applications are nearly complete but they don't want to roll it out until they have new hardware.


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Message 3483 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 1:10:33 UTC - in response to Message 3482.  

> > But what if you dont WANT to join a bunch or projects? The only ones Im
> > interested in with regards to BOINC are Predictor@Home [which Ive pretty
> much
> > given up on] and this one [which has been down more than up since I
> joined].
>
> You should not give up on Predictor... rather, give up on Dell since that is
> the biggest reason why they aren't back up yet. Dell has taken over a month
> to get their new server shipped. (and I don't think it is out of the door
> yet) I believe their upgrade to BOINC v4 and new science applications are
> nearly complete but they don't want to roll it out until they have new
> hardware.
>

> --------------------------------------
> A member of The
> Knights Who Say Ni!

> My BOINC stats site

Forgive me if Im a little suspicious about that whole thing. Its been over a month and they have no idea when they are getting their server? Im no DELL lover by any stretch but this whole waiting for DELL story makes me wonder. Its not like they are some guy sitting at home waiting for his DELL laptop. This is a large institution putting great resources behind their purchase. Most of the people here could have built the server for them by now....

Spectre


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Message 3485 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 5:01:15 UTC

You guys need to relax, just because your boxes are not working as you call it you come un-glued. The world will not end I promise.... RELAX Smoke a J, drink a Beer, shoot some hard stuff, get layed or just go to sleep........Nitey nite.......;o)
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Angus

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Message 3486 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 6:45:24 UTC - in response to Message 3483.  

> > > But what if you dont WANT to join a bunch or projects? The only ones
> Im
> > > interested in with regards to BOINC are Predictor@Home [which Ive
> pretty
> > much
> > > given up on] and this one [which has been down more than up since I
> > joined].
> >
> > You should not give up on Predictor... rather, give up on Dell since
> that is
> > the biggest reason why they aren't back up yet. Dell has taken over a
> month
> > to get their new server shipped. (and I don't think it is out of the
> door
> > yet) I believe their upgrade to BOINC v4 and new science applications
> are
> > nearly complete but they don't want to roll it out until they have new
> > hardware.
> >

> > --------------------------------------
> > A member of <a> href="http://lhcathome.cern.ch/team_display.php?teamid=10">The
> > Knights Who Say Ni![/url]
> > My BOINC stats site
>
> Forgive me if Im a little suspicious about that whole thing. Its been over a
> month and they have no idea when they are getting their server? Im no DELL
> lover by any stretch but this whole waiting for DELL story makes me wonder.
> Its not like they are some guy sitting at home waiting for his DELL laptop.
> This is a large institution putting great resources behind their purchase.
> Most of the people here could have built the server for them by now....
>
> Spectre
>
>
> Spectre
>
If LHC is the ONLY project within BOINC that interests you (or me, in this case) then it's all the more harder to deal with this constant lack of work. I wasn't able to get enough work for 2 boxes to crunch unattended over the weekend. When they run out of work, I have to then manually start another DC application to keep the boxes busy until LHC decides to grace us with a small allotment of work again. Which, if you're following this, means I have to monitor the LHC app or this site to see if there IS work again, and then stop the OTHER application so LHC can continue unimpeded. Hard core DC'rs don't like to have boxes sitting idle - ever. And DC projects NEED the hardcore crunchers, not the casual hobbyist who runs the client for a day or two and then gets bored and goes on to whatever else strikes their fancy. If the boxes can't be kept busy, we'll go on to something else.

As for the Dell issue, I have a whole computer room full of Dell servers, both tower models and multiple racks full of various model servers. I have NEVER had to wait that long for a server.
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Message 3487 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 7:03:21 UTC - in response to Message 3486.  



> If LHC is the ONLY project within BOINC that interests you (or me, in this
> case) then it's all the more harder to deal with this constant lack of work.
> I wasn't able to get enough work for 2 boxes to crunch unattended over the
> weekend. When they run out of work, I have to then manually start another DC
> application to keep the boxes busy until LHC decides to grace us with a small
> allotment of work again. Which, if you're following this, means I have to
> monitor the LHC app or this site to see if there IS work again, and then stop
> the OTHER application so LHC can continue unimpeded. Hard core DC'rs don't
> like to have boxes sitting idle - ever. And DC projects NEED the hardcore
> crunchers, not the casual hobbyist who runs the client for a day or two and
> then gets bored and goes on to whatever else strikes their fancy. If the
> boxes can't be kept busy, we'll go on to something else.

Sounds like you need to talk the other DC projects you are part of to use BOINC, so you do not need to worry about starting and stopping other programs.

The nature of the science behind the LHC project as pointed out by other posters is one of sporadic generation of WU's unlike SETI@home were the data should just pour off the data tapes they have in boxes next to the splitter servers
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Message 3490 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 8:32:28 UTC - in response to Message 3487.  

> Sounds like you need to talk the other DC projects you are part of to use
> BOINC, so you do not need to worry about starting and stopping other programs.

Hear, hear!

> The nature of the science behind the LHC project as pointed out by other
> posters is one of sporadic generation of WU's unlike SETI@home were the data
> should just pour off the data tapes they have in boxes next to the splitter
> servers

This is the entire reason BOINC was born. Not even seti@home will have an infinite supply of work. According to Dr. Anderson, the data they get from the telescope right now can only support about 200,000 users. Once they shut down seti-classic and a couple hundred thousand users are forced to migrate, they will most likely run out of work on a regular basis as well. If you don't want to share your CPU, don't run BOINC. The Corrolory of course is: if you want to run BOINC, you must share your CPU. Cant have your cake and eat it too :)


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Message 3492 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 8:56:29 UTC - in response to Message 3490.  


> This is the entire reason BOINC was born. Not even seti@home will have an
> infinite supply of work. According to Dr. Anderson, the data they get from
> the telescope right now can only support about 200,000 users. Once they shut
> down seti-classic and a couple hundred thousand users are forced to migrate,
> they will most likely run out of work on a regular basis as well. If you
> don't want to share your CPU, don't run BOINC. The Corrolory of course is: if
> you want to run BOINC, you must share your CPU. Cant have your cake and eat
> it too :)

Yes and no. Why did they bring out BOINC when SETI classic had no problems what so ever?
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Message 3493 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 9:04:58 UTC - in response to Message 3492.  


> Yes and no. Why did they bring out BOINC when SETI classic had no problems
> what so ever?


SETI classic just appears to have no problems - the only reason there appears to be a constant workflow is that WU's are just recycled so that the users can crunch continually. Most of the cycles on classic are just wasted.

Angs
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Message 3494 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 9:15:23 UTC - in response to Message 3493.  

> SETI classic just appears to have no problems - the only reason there appears
> to be a constant workflow is that WU's are just recycled so that the users can
> crunch continually. Most of the cycles on classic are just wasted.
>
> Angs
>
>

Well I hope Eistein@Home goes up quickly, that interests me and will probably have an enormous amount of work to go threw.
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Message 3495 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 9:24:32 UTC - in response to Message 3492.  

> Yes and no. Why did they bring out BOINC when SETI classic had no problems
> what so ever?

lol. seti classic had MANY problems. The servers just ran smoothly and everyone had work so no one complained about it. Here are some highlights.

1) Cheating. The seti-classic platform was intended for a few thousand users who were interested in science, not credit. When the project grew, people quickly discovered that cheating was extremely easy and did so a lot (more than most people realize). Some of the cheats even threatened the science of the project, not just the stats.

2) overly redundant crunching. According to Dr. Anderson, seti classic is/was sending work units out DOZENS of times just to keep everyone happy with the work unit supply. Only 3 results are required for accuracy checks. Thus over half of the CPU power was going to waste - not what 'hardcore crunchers' want to hear.

3) As mentioned in #1 the system was originally designed to support a few thousand enthusiasts. At several points they have had HUGE problems due to the unexpected popularity of the project. There was the time the tables grew too large (2 TB if I remember correctly) and of course the giant bandwidth crisis of 2001 (or was it 2002?). And there were others.

The system needed a major overhaul but instead of just fixing their own little corner, Berkeley decided to open distributed computing up to a wider community so that the super computer they had created could be used to do more than just re-crunch radio data. From what I understand, Dr. Anderson isn't even all that big of a seti@home fanatic. He is all about distributed computing. Seti@home was just one of the first ones and in part thanks to his leadership, one of the most successful ones. But his ultimate goal has always been to get a wider community involved. At least this is what I remember from watching his talk from http://www.climateprediction.net/project/openday.php


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Message 3499 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 10:02:43 UTC - in response to Message 3495.  
Last modified: 11 Oct 2004, 10:03:36 UTC

> 2) overly redundant crunching.

Exactly. In my eyes it is a sign of respect for the users that projects like seti@home and LHC@home stop giving out workunits that are only there to keep people crunching (for LHC it would be: don't start giving out...). It shows that public distributed computing has started to grow up - and the diversity of the new projects clearly tells me that this is a good thing that will benefit public distributed computing in general, not just seti.
I think the decision to share some of the wasted resources with other projects was a very noble one.
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Message 3502 - Posted: 11 Oct 2004, 10:42:34 UTC
Last modified: 11 Oct 2004, 10:47:45 UTC

Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share. Resource Share.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Is there actually going to be some work?


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