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Profile Nils Høimyr
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Message 27892 - Posted: 21 Nov 2016, 10:05:13 UTC

Following the Theory simulations added 1 week ago, we have now also deployed the CMS and LHCb applications from the Virtual LHC@home project here on the consolidated, original LHC@home.

Please note that in order to run VM applications in addition to the classic BOINC application Sixtrack, you need to have a 64bit machine with VirtualBox installed and virtualisation extensions (VT-x) enabled. The details are explained on the join us and faq pages on the LHC@home web site.

By default, only the Sixtrack application is enabled in your BOINC project preferences. If you have VirtualBox installed and wish to try VM applications as well, you need to enable other applications in your LHC@home project preferences.

Please note that if you run an older PC with Windows XP or similar, it is recommended to stay with the default; Sixtrack only.

Thanks for your contributions to LHC@home!

--The team
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Message 27894 - Posted: 21 Nov 2016, 15:43:17 UTC

Hi. Just got the VM not installed message. I'd like to know how much CPU load will this add up to my box? I guess it's a lot since you'll be running VirtualBox, plus some Linux, plus LHC...

Does this make sense?

Better to use all that extra CPU load in tasks, rather than an opsys on top on another opsys...

Regards,
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Profile Nils Høimyr
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Message 27895 - Posted: 21 Nov 2016, 15:54:55 UTC - in response to Message 27894.  

Depends on your PC configuration and the applications you select. The CMS application is heavier than e.g. Theory simulations.

I am running with VM applications on a 5 year old Linux PC with 8Gb of memory and it is all fine. If your PC is short of memory, we would recommend to stick with Sixtrack only in your BOINC preferences.
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Message 27896 - Posted: 21 Nov 2016, 19:53:04 UTC

None of my CPU's are new top of the line and they have ram from 8GB to 18GB doing these VB tasks for Cern for the last 6 years 24/7

On this 8-core Intel i7 2,2 with only 8GB ram I have running at the same time vLHC Theory VB X4 and LHC Theory VB X2 and at times even add a Einstein GPU task.

But I try to space out all the VB tasks so they aren't trying to get to HTCondor ping at the same time.

And the only problem I have running these VB tasks is VB does not work very good if you happen to be d/ling lots of data at the same time as the VB tasks are trying to get the X509 Credential and the HTCondor ping

It happens to me when I d/l the long page of data for Einstein GPU tasks at the same time with my pitiful DSL

Doing that tends to make the VB tasks to crash just after the 11 minute mark.
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Message 27897 - Posted: 21 Nov 2016, 22:48:28 UTC - in response to Message 27892.  


Please note that if you run an older PC with Windows XP or similar, it is recommended to stay with the default; Sixtrack only.

Thanks for your contributions to LHC@home!

--The team


Does this mean you recommend or that there will no longer be any of the Theory tasks for X86 Applications like we still have at vLHC and we do have 5 of the Top 20 pc's over there that are X86 (such as #1 there) ?

https://lhcathome.cern.ch/vLHCathome/top_hosts.php?sort_by=total_credit

Because if X64 is the only type of VB tasks (like the Theory X86) members could just update the OS to a X64 version

Those Top 2 computers there is an example because the were both X86 since March 1st 2011 and are twin computers but a couple years ago I decided to update the one to Windows 7 and then later Windows 10 and the only reason then is because an X86 can only use 4GB Ram no matter how much you install but after I updated pc #2 there it became X64 and could then use the 8GB Ram (or more)

I still have X64 OS discs so if I actually have to change it to X64 I can like I did with that other one. (although my old goal has been to see how many years I can run that X86 XP Pro which has been running since November 2001 for Boinc and during the Seti Classic) and it also runs GPU's 24/7 at the same time with the 3-core phenom and only the 4GB ram)

We still have those hard-core VB crunchers here with X86 and maybe they also have a X64 disc to do this.

I hate to retire that #1 X86 so I will just use it as a 3 core GPU cruncher with the GeForce 550Ti OC

But of course my other 5 are X64 and they never get to take a VB break.

(ok I guess my.....um....question/suggestion is long enough)
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Message 27913 - Posted: 23 Nov 2016, 0:02:14 UTC - in response to Message 27895.  

Is there any overview to indicate what the recommended requirements for each application are? At work I am using an older machine with only 4GB of memory, so I know that Atlas is practically out.

My apologies if there is a response for this already.
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Message 27914 - Posted: 23 Nov 2016, 10:59:22 UTC - in response to Message 27913.  

I have just provided an entry in the FAQ.
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Message 27915 - Posted: 23 Nov 2016, 11:25:27 UTC - in response to Message 27913.  

Is there any overview to indicate what the recommended requirements for each application are? At work I am using an older machine with only 4GB of memory, so I know that Atlas is practically out.

My apologies if there is a response for this already.



On 4GB RAM you can run 1 Atlas and 2 Theories as long as your OS is stripped down with minimal services/daemons running.

My Dell m6400 (Core2 Duo p8400 with 4GBRAM) is able to handle all these WU's and is keeping a 1400 RAC on Theories.
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Message 27916 - Posted: 23 Nov 2016, 11:28:14 UTC - in response to Message 27914.  

I have just provided an entry in the FAQ.


That link you provide doesn't have any FAQ entries; just takes me to a page that starts off with:

CERN Single Sign-On

Sign in with a CERN account, a Federation account or a public service account
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Message 27919 - Posted: 23 Nov 2016, 12:48:08 UTC - in response to Message 27916.  

Sorry, that was the https URL I used for editing, try this.
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Message 27924 - Posted: 23 Nov 2016, 18:38:54 UTC

.....as usual I spend thousands of hours here and I ask a question and it was like I used invisible ink and no reply 2 days later....
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jelle

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Message 27925 - Posted: 23 Nov 2016, 18:40:44 UTC - in response to Message 27919.  

Thank you. That is helpful.

My work machine with 4GB often needs to run a virtual machine with a Windows XP guest, so in practice that means I typically have only 2 GB available as free memory (prior to any BOINC tasks).
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Message 28032 - Posted: 1 Dec 2016, 12:59:12 UTC

Please get rid of the constant nag notifications that Virtual Box is not installed. I did install it, it crashed my computer three times in a day, I removed it. If I continue getting the daily "reminder" that I need to install Virtual Box, then LHC will simply be removed from my BOINC project list.
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Message 28039 - Posted: 2 Dec 2016, 7:43:57 UTC - in response to Message 28032.  
Last modified: 2 Dec 2016, 7:44:14 UTC

We are trying to get rid of that message for users who only allow the Sixtrack application, but so far without success as indicated in this post.
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Message 28657 - Posted: 25 Jan 2017, 5:08:22 UTC - in response to Message 27919.  

Sorry, that was the https URL I used for editing, try this.


I was migrating over this week and noticed ALICE. Don't know anything about this WU and it's not in the link. Does it have similar requirements to LHCb or CMS?

BTW, I made it a wishlist request that we have the system requirements as a pinned post in this message center/questions and answers area.
I'd copy and paste over the info from the wiki but I can't pin it.
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Message 28666 - Posted: 25 Jan 2017, 18:08:43 UTC

Here are the memory and disk requirements for running a single task of an application.

Sixtrack
Requires 512MB of RAM and 1GB of free hard disk space.

Theory
Requires 630MB of RAM and 3GB of free hard disk space ( 0.8GB uncompressed disk image size ) plus ~1GB of RAM overhead for the host operating system.

ATLAS
Requires 1.4GB of RAM and 4GB of free hard disk space ( 2.2GB uncompressed disk image size ) plus ~1GB of RAM overhead for the host operating system.

CMS
Requires 2GB of RAM and 4GB of free hard disk space ( 1.7GB uncompressed disk image size ) plus ~1GB of RAM overhead for the host operating system.

LHCb
Requires 2GB of RAM and 8GB of free hard disk space ( 3.9GB uncompressed disk image size ) plus ~1GB of RAM overhead for the host operating system.
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Message 28667 - Posted: 25 Jan 2017, 18:10:46 UTC - in response to Message 28657.  

I don't think there is any ALICE task at the moment.
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Message 28671 - Posted: 25 Jan 2017, 19:12:01 UTC - in response to Message 28666.  

For me the ATLAS tasks show in BoincTasks it is using 3300 MB of memory. LHCb shows using only 476 MB.

When I try to look at the memory consuption in Windows Task Manager I cannot find any process consuming more than 500 MB. The numbers just don't seem to ad up. The total memory consumption seems correct in Task Manager (about 13 GB used of 16 GB total). So how to check the actual memory consumption for any vbox tasks in Windows?
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Message 28672 - Posted: 25 Jan 2017, 21:52:56 UTC

For me the number that looks right is the virtual Size from Process explorer of the VboxHeadless processes, this is about 2.4GB for CMS and 914MB for Theory. These seem to match up with BOINC's working set size.
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Message 28675 - Posted: 26 Jan 2017, 15:18:30 UTC - in response to Message 28672.  

Nothing on my ProcessExplorer Virtual Size shows anything like that. Currently I have 1 Theory, 1 LHCb and 1 CMS task running on vbox. The Virtual Size on ProcessExplorer shows totally 900 MB used for 9 VBoxHeadless.exe processes. Each groups of three VBoxHealess.exe use about 270 MB (250+10+10 MB). Weird.

My ProcessExplorer is an old version 11.31 back from Sysinternals Suite days.
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