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Eric Mcintosh
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Message 27121 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 12:15:07 UTC - in response to Message 27119.  

Yes probably. The 30,000 or so results are inconclusive.
They don't use much disk space though. We shall see as we
should now be running a third time for these cases. Eric.
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Richard Haselgrove

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Message 27122 - Posted: 1 Feb 2015, 12:20:36 UTC - in response to Message 27121.  

Perhaps, because we've had so much work recently, those inconclusives hung around on the disk for longer than usual - the resends wait at the end of the queue behind all the submitted first-run work. It all contributes to the server and database load.
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Message 27123 - Posted: 2 Feb 2015, 18:20:00 UTC

Just for the record, that polish guy never got back to me.
Team AnandTech - SETI@H, Muon1 DPAD, F@H, MW@H, A@H, LHC@H, POGS, R@H, DHEP, CPDN, E@H.
Main rig - Ryzen 3600, MSI B450 Gm ProACC, 32GB DDR4 3200, RX580 8GB, Win 10 64bit
2nd rig - i7 4930k @4.1 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 1866, HD 7870XT 3GB(DS), Win 7 64bit
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Message 27183 - Posted: 26 Feb 2015, 23:34:28 UTC
Last modified: 26 Feb 2015, 23:34:42 UTC

This host has a lot of invalid (4876) and a lot of inconclusives (1748) and errors (269). Maybe it needs to be looked at.

http://lhcathomeclassic.cern.ch/sixtrack/show_host_detail.php?hostid=9996388
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Eric Mcintosh
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Message 27184 - Posted: 27 Feb 2015, 10:39:28 UTC

I have suspended him (again) for two weeks.
He has not replied to emails, nor has our Polish
colleague.
This machine 9996388 is an 8 CPU with 16GB memory.
I wonder if it has SECDED??? Eric.
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Message 27219 - Posted: 22 Mar 2015, 3:39:03 UTC

It looks like our fellow host 9996388 has been racking up quite a lot of inconclusives and invalids... so far 3685 pending, 6050 inconclusives, 2698 valids, and 2228 invalids. How does this host manage to only grab 2 second work units, and then complete them when it takes a normal host 4 hours plus to complete? Something is very off about this host.
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Eric Mcintosh
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Message 27220 - Posted: 22 Mar 2015, 8:38:27 UTC - in response to Message 27219.  

Yes indeed; I am preparing a message about invalids. I am a very
worried man because I fear a "new" problem with floating-point
determinism. All very complicated but I shall try and write it
up. In the meantime I shall try adn suspend/ban or something ithis host
because we have a lot of work and this is a real pain. Eric.
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Message 27222 - Posted: 22 Mar 2015, 18:47:04 UTC

This host has been a recurring issue ... why don't you definitely ban it if its owner doen't answer to your messages ?
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Message 27223 - Posted: 23 Mar 2015, 18:57:22 UTC - in response to Message 27222.  

Because I think the problem might be mine/SixTrack.....
I am trying to analyse these results and also see
who validates with them. This is my TOP priority.
I also thought of upping copies to 4 and same to 3
but that is wasting resources. Hope to have a new
SixTrack executable and to return more results to help
identify the issue. Eric.
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Message 27226 - Posted: 26 Mar 2015, 11:41:56 UTC

I think the valid tasks are very unusual, here is an example: WU: 29893891

The same computer (i7-2600) needs 371 CPU-seconds, while Dmitry needs only 0.34 CPU-second.

I can't believe this, Grubix.
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Message 27227 - Posted: 26 Mar 2015, 18:27:14 UTC
Last modified: 26 Mar 2015, 18:27:28 UTC

That host is still a problem?, yikes!

Even if it isn't his fault he should of replied, what about using the BOINC notices feature to grab his attention? lol
Team AnandTech - SETI@H, Muon1 DPAD, F@H, MW@H, A@H, LHC@H, POGS, R@H, DHEP, CPDN, E@H.
Main rig - Ryzen 3600, MSI B450 Gm ProACC, 32GB DDR4 3200, RX580 8GB, Win 10 64bit
2nd rig - i7 4930k @4.1 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 1866, HD 7870XT 3GB(DS), Win 7 64bit
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Eric Mcintosh
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Message 27229 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 6:28:40 UTC - in response to Message 27226.  

Thankyou very much, This could be a VITAL piece of infomation
or a false alarm.
All results differences I have found have been very small.
I am testing right now om similar machimes, I have fixed
a bug in SixTrack but it seems to be irrelevant, and I
am trying to work out a plan. It is not just Dmitry.

We also have some 460,000 jobs queued, important production.

I am looking at this WU right now, more news soonest-
Eric.
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Message 27231 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 7:08:28 UTC - in response to Message 27230.  

Ah well; I have run this case at CERN. The results are
genuine:
[mcintosh@lxplus0234 short]$ tail fort.6

For 500075 Turn(s) 277. second(s) of Computing Time was needed

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Total Time used: 281. second(s)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIXTRACR stop

This is a case where the particles are very unstable. The run time is short and
in fact the results are all zero as all particles are lost early. Eric.
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Message 27232 - Posted: 27 Mar 2015, 22:33:54 UTC - in response to Message 27231.  

Ah well; I have run this case at CERN. The results are
genuine:
[mcintosh@lxplus0234 short]$ tail fort.6

For 500075 Turn(s) 277. second(s) of Computing Time was needed

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Total Time used: 281. second(s)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIXTRACR stop

This is a case where the particles are very unstable. The run time is short and
in fact the results are all zero as all particles are lost early. Eric.



Thanks Eric


-Samson
Volunteer Mad Scientist For Life
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Message 27233 - Posted: 28 Mar 2015, 11:17:26 UTC
Last modified: 28 Mar 2015, 11:28:16 UTC

Same problem cause of that host.

I've got inconclusive validation for 2 or 3 ~8h tasks, that means 1 core-day wasted. A bit frustrating.

Thank you for your support.
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Richard Haselgrove

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Message 27234 - Posted: 28 Mar 2015, 12:25:45 UTC - in response to Message 27233.  

It's more likely to be delayed, rather than wasted, if your machine normally produces valid results. 'Inconclusive' is not the end of the story.
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Message 27235 - Posted: 28 Mar 2015, 19:18:36 UTC - in response to Message 27234.  

This sounds great. I thought inconclusive results would be removed soon from something like server cache. Well, I was wrong. My machine is ok.
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Eric Mcintosh
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Message 27238 - Posted: 29 Mar 2015, 16:23:57 UTC

Subject: Status Result Differences 29th March, 2015

Since I am a bit blocked for the moment :-( herewith
a status report.

I cannot access the MySQL database anymore (c.f. Igor) on boincai08.
Access to the project management pages is incredibly slow.
This is a big block.

In the meantime we are suffering from too many Invalid results.
Many from one Host, user suspended..

I have found a bug in SixTrack related to Ripple but it is irrelevant.
I am pretty sure we have a "bug" with gfortran O4 Version 4.8.1.
Version 4.4.7 works fine at all optimisations 0-4.
For the main test I am using prob1, reduced to 60,000 turns prob16.
Hopefully the number of turns can be reduced further.
However the production problems are with ifort.

We are also blocked from testing on boinctest, especially the version
which returns all results. I am also going to appeal for more
volunteers to sign up for testing.

Right now the problem appears to be (modern) hardware related.
We shall see. I do believe we will always get "random" errors
if the mother board does NOT have SECDED (Single Error Correction
Double Error Detection for memory). Seymour Cray is reputed to
have said "Parity is for farmers", but he had to overnight redesign the
CDC 7600 memory. We may also have over clocking or maybe just plain
over heating.

I append the distribution of Invalid results by Hostid/number.
The first host/user is suspended for 21 days. These differences
which affect many studies cause long delays for the volunteers and
the CERN users as the 3rd run for verification goes to the end of
the queue.

The problem appears to be independent of Linux/Windows OS but may be
a code generation problem or hardware of "modern" machines.

I shall continue statistical analysis of Invalids, and in particular
Valids which are in fact Invalid, but got the same results twice.
It is "impossible" so far to replicate Invalid results at CERN or
on BOINC itself. Yet some other CERN virtual machines from Agile Boincers
are involved, but they live and die rather quickly.

This is tough, but we shall get there. The overall error level is < 2%
but of course I don't know about undetected errors!

Just to keep you posted while the infrastructure at CERN gets
sorted out. Eric.


Total Invalids from 10th Februray to 18th March 35525
Valids estimated at 1,700,000.
Wrong Valids ?.

9996388 28903 far too many suspended
1013750 1143 but many many valids
9919005 872 but many many valids
10322239 560
10309195 452
10336298 168
9934863 76
10352167 72
10308956 72
10308025 41
10345683 40
9872679 38
9840513 37
9704241 37
10351335 37
1083316 37
9645240 29
10338560 29
10343299 27
10353594 26
10000750 25
10312050 21
10353906 20
10350980 20
10343301 19
10343140 17
10339155 17
9955639 16
9966659 15
10342890 15
10349590 14
10328242 14
10325373 14
10351209 13
10324868 13
10296743 13
10001769 13
9778571 12
10354974 12
10306435 12
10353183 11
10351275 11
10329539 11
10297885 11
10157836 11
10010063 11
9870066 10
10352151 10
9971391 9
9892878 9
10346131 9
10151677 9
10353652 8
10352560 8
10351497 8
10157295 8
9996566 7
9971256 7
9721516 7
10352905 7
10349334 7
10338921 7
10333179 7
10326604 7
10304943 7
10302052 7
10261618 7
10190420 7
10000479 7
9972175 6
9950896 6
9892876 6
9652331 6
10354058 6
10353465 6
10344553 6
10335461 6
10334839 6
10322257 6
10320038 6
10311209 6
10309523 6
10306024 6
10300314 6
9971244 5
9941645 5
9919857 5
9897006 5
10353297 5
10352769 5
10352742 5
10352700 5
10350814 5
10348863 5
10348117 5
10346841 5
10346233 5
10344573 5
10343421 5
10340311 5
10340276 5
10339898 5
10336862 5
10335270 5
10322380 5
10320732 5
10315138 5
10313370 5
10306259 5
10303907 5
10298019 5
10297228 5
10287866 5
10286702 5
9976366 4
9964936 4
9958881 4
9957650 4
9950917 4
9931057 4
9915349 4
9855228 4
10354000 4
10353919 4
10352993 4
10352856 4
10352647 4
10352514 4
10352276 4
10349639 4
10348691 4
10348439 4
10347751 4
10347446 4
10347076 4
10346833 4
10345775 4
10342646 4
10342366 4
10341530 4
10340522 4
10339000 4
10338102 4
10336912 4
10335441 4
10334611 4
10334196 4
10333125 4
10332077 4
10329857 4
10329394 4
10322210 4
10321370 4
10318971 4
10318890 4
10311419 4
10309202 4
10303914 4
10300443 4
10299110 4
10297814 4
10295315 4
10294211 4
10289207 4
10285430 4
10283981 4
10257246 4
10200198 4
10010353 4
9993117 3
9992739 3
9988108 3
9974456 3
9972395 3
9967072 3
9964913 3
9963699 3
9954883 3
9954039 3
9953507 3
9951756 3
9945780 3
9944961 3
9944904 3
9929608 3
9926800 3
9919164 3
9900906 3
9892849 3
9884577 3
9714577 3
9688310 3
8424458 3
10354481 3
10354454 3
10354215 3
10353942 3
10353595 3
10352745 3
10352610 3
10352454 3
10352443 3
10352270 3
10351575 3
10351549 3
10351248 3
10351202 3
10350934 3
10350777 3
10350601 3
10350263 3
10349672 3
10349464 3
10349455 3
10349150 3
10349121 3
10349102 3
10348410 3
10348155 3
10347699 3
10347163 3
10346697 3
10346461 3
10345918 3
10345271 3
10344378 3
10344330 3
10344268 3
10343763 3
10343527 3
10342434 3
10342147 3
10340565 3
10340508 3
10338745 3
10337190 3
10336881 3
10336318 3
10335978 3
10335869 3
10335589 3
10334491 3
10332343 3
10327154 3
10326961 3
10322962 3
10321730 3
10320266 3
10318112 3
10316574 3
10314026 3
10314008 3
10311939 3
10311933 3
10311848 3
10311640 3
10309459 3
10306489 3
10304424 3
10299863 3
10297807 3
10297384 3
10295251 3
10293822 3
10291676 3
10288571 3
10287031 3
10285665 3
10260885 3
10260180 3
10190689 3
10143577 3
10142376 3
10002647 3
9996076 2
9994902 2
9991766 2
9991707 2
9990440 2
9974893 2
9974646 2
9972836 2
9971261 2
9971254 2
9971242 2
9963920 2
9963755 2
9960332 2
9957046 2
9954157 2
9953042 2
9950734 2
9942760 2
9937364 2
9932673 2
9931058 2
9930278 2
9923236 2
9921334 2
9918197 2
9916011 2
9907027 2
9905027 2
9902316 2
9895131 2
9882122 2
9880957 2
9878678 2
9865201 2
9830995 2
9830281 2
9826583 2
9722054 2
9704204 2
9698436 2
9666602 2
9636932 2
9613647 2
4499231 2
10354419 2
10353993 2
10353855 2
10353832 2
10353795 2
10353731 2
10353342 2
10352759 2
10352738 2
10352670 2
10352667 2
10352521 2
10352446 2
10352441 2
10352433 2
10351543 2
10351522 2
10351439 2
10351401 2
10351359 2
10351255 2
10351174 2
10351164 2
10351080 2
10351061 2
10350959 2
10350925 2
10350874 2
10350872 2
10350695 2
10350657 2
10350643 2
10350607 2
10350194 2
10350151 2
10350121 2
10349710 2
10349278 2
10349239 2
10349148 2
10349011 2
10348882 2
10348693 2
10348559 2
10348544 2
10348459 2
10348406 2
10348399 2
10348386 2
10348160 2
10348033 2
10347822 2
10347764 2
10347556 2
10347409 2
10347090 2
10346992 2
10346737 2
10346670 2
10346496 2
10346343 2
10346279 2
10345941 2
10345839 2
10345639 2
10345435 2
10345426 2
10345212 2
10345127 2
10344867 2
10344704 2
10344699 2
10344425 2
10344053 2
10344017 2
10343766 2
10343738 2
10343298 2
10342951 2
10342873 2
10342868 2
10342543 2
10342493 2
10342263 2
10342100 2
10341982 2
10341892 2
10341096 2
10341016 2
10340555 2
10340033 2
10339627 2
10339531 2
10339157 2
10338951 2
10338664 2
10338408 2
10337429 2
10337357 2
10337243 2
10336747 2
10336382 2
10335980 2
10335019 2
10334820 2
10334730 2
10334649 2
10334493 2
10334209 2
10332737 2
10332528 2
10331511 2
10331366 2
10331296 2
10331026 2
10330911 2
10329865 2
10329200 2
10328885 2
10328871 2
10327144 2
10326422 2
10326286 2
10325688 2
10325602 2
10325483 2
10325189 2
10324997 2
10323958 2
10323844 2
10323699 2
10322925 2
10322668 2
10322641 2
10322435 2
10321291 2
10320150 2
10319953 2
10319184 2
10319077 2
10318492 2
10317881 2
10317397 2
10316392 2
10316223 2
10315574 2
10314354 2
10314223 2
10313334 2
10311354 2
10310717 2
10309665 2
10308110 2
10307516 2
10306985 2
10306366 2
10306110 2
10306097 2
10306071 2
10306068 2
10305755 2
10305325 2
10304942 2
10304611 2
10304275 2
10303902 2
10303534 2
10302798 2
10301325 2
10300426 2
10300352 2
10299952 2
10299309 2
10298290 2
10298288 2
10298282 2
10298280 2
10297844 2
10297808 2
10295697 2
10294141 2
10292330 2
10291459 2
10288569 2
10281788 2
10281444 2
10263109 2
10261158 2
10261108 2
10260766 2
10259832 2
10258019 2
10257610 2
10236016 2
10235139 2
102105 2
10190874 2
10153637 2
10152357 2
10152278 2
10151727 2
10143897 2
10143300 2
10142641 2
10141987 2
10141941 2
10139869 2
10010816 2
10010626 2
10010555 2
10002733 2
9999418 1
9999234 1
9999056 1
9998645 1
9997923 1
9997535 1
9997468 1
9996381 1
9996322 1
9996243 1
9996199 1
9995779 1
9995685 1
9995195 1
9994488 1
9993738 1
9993105 1
9992985 1
9992794 1
9991848 1
9991567 1
9991405 1
9991322 1
9991318 1
9990804 1
9990687 1
9989622 1
9988967 1
9988234 1
9988206 1
9988040 1
9976371 1
9975648 1
9975418 1
9975242 1
9974819 1
9974466 1
9974087 1
9974076 1
9973747 1
9973718 1
9973257 1
9972657 1
9971737 1
9971661 1
9971538 1
9971464 1
9971258 1
9971132 1
9970884 1
9970158 1
9969285 1
9969228 1
9967774 1
9966774 1
9966673 1
9966658 1
9966525 1
9966301 1
9966001 1
9965738 1
9965532 1
9965298 1
9965164 1
9965017 1
9965001 1
9964959 1
9964531 1
9964314 1
9963745 1
9963578 1
9963512 1
9963343 1
9962945 1
9962374 1
9960785 1
9960544 1
9960403 1
9960069 1
9960011 1
9959350 1
9958565 1
9957207 1
9955763 1
9955652 1
9955291 1
9954727 1
9954612 1
9953454 1
9952988 1
9952901 1
9952007 1
9951177 1
9949621 1
9948162 1
9947538 1
9947253 1
9946511 1
9945012 1
9944798 1
9944699 1
9943288 1
9942658 1
9942546 1
9941855 1
9941119 1
9938031 1
9937912 1
9937649 1
9936629 1
9936307 1
9936042 1
9935624 1
9935402 1
9935121 1
9935003 1
9934742 1
9933653 1
9932526 1
9932057 1
9931381 1
9931312 1
9931059 1
9931056 1
9930241 1
9930140 1
9928656 1
9925700 1
9925514 1
9925468 1
9924593 1
9923784 1
9922920 1
9922732 1
9917963 1
9917887 1
9916546 1
9914048 1
9913714 1
9913681 1
9911533 1
9910632 1
9909817 1
9908707 1
9893974 1
9892877 1
9891428 1
9890014 1
9888709 1
9887801 1
9884793 1
9882590 1
9881897 1
9880317 1
9879299 1
9874961 1
9873198 1
9873056 1
9869570 1
9866712 1
9853997 1
9851301 1
9846970 1
9845380 1
9824946 1
9808592 1
9797671 1
9788871 1
9784425 1
9777813 1
9777135 1
9775346 1
9771200 1
9767453 1
9766407 1
9743783 1
9715033 1
9710589 1
9700382 1
9685969 1
9685464 1
9677686 1
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ID: 27238 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Eric Mcintosh
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Message 27239 - Posted: 29 Mar 2015, 16:23:57 UTC

Subject: Status Result Differences 29th March, 2015

Since I am a bit blocked for the moment :-( herewith
a status report.

I cannot access the MySQL database anymore (c.f. Igor) on boincai08.
Access to the project management pages is incredibly slow.
This is a big block.

In the meantime we are suffering from too many Invalid results.
Many from one Host, user suspended..

I have found a bug in SixTrack related to Ripple but it is irrelevant.
I am pretty sure we have a "bug" with gfortran O4 Version 4.8.1.
Version 4.4.7 works fine at all optimisations 0-4.
For the main test I am using prob1, reduced to 60,000 turns prob16.
Hopefully the number of turns can be reduced further.
However the production problems are with ifort.

We are also blocked from testing on boinctest, especially the version
which returns all results. I am also going to appeal for more
volunteers to sign up for testing.

Right now the problem appears to be (modern) hardware related.
We shall see. I do believe we will always get "random" errors
if the mother board does NOT have SECDED (Single Error Correction
Double Error Detection for memory). Seymour Cray is reputed to
have said "Parity is for farmers", but he had to overnight redesign the
CDC 7600 memory. We may also have over clocking or maybe just plain
over heating.

I append the distribution of Invalid results by Hostid/number.
The first host/user is suspended for 21 days. These differences
which affect many studies cause long delays for the volunteers and
the CERN users as the 3rd run for verification goes to the end of
the queue.

The problem appears to be independent of Linux/Windows OS but may be
a code generation problem or hardware of "modern" machines.

I shall continue statistical analysis of Invalids, and in particular
Valids which are in fact Invalid, but got the same results twice.
It is "impossible" so far to replicate Invalid results at CERN or
on BOINC itself. Yet some other CERN virtual machines from Agile Boincers
are involved, but they live and die rather quickly.

This is tough, but we shall get there. The overall error level is < 2%
but of course I don't know about undetected errors!

Just to keep you posted while the infrastructure at CERN gets
sorted out. Eric.


Total Invalids from 10th Februray to 18th March 35525
Valids estimated at 1,700,000.
Wrong Valids ?.

9996388 28903 far too many suspended
1013750 1143 but many many valids
9919005 872 but many many valids
10322239 560
10309195 452
10336298 168
9934863 76
10352167 72
10308956 72
10308025 41
10345683 40
9872679 38
9840513 37
9704241 37
10351335 37
1083316 37
9645240 29
10338560 29
10343299 27
10353594 26
10000750 25
10312050 21
10353906 20
10350980 20
10343301 19
10343140 17
10339155 17
9955639 16
9966659 15
10342890 15
10349590 14
10328242 14
10325373 14
10351209 13
10324868 13
10296743 13
10001769 13
9778571 12
10354974 12
10306435 12
10353183 11
10351275 11
10329539 11
10297885 11
10157836 11
10010063 11
9870066 10
10352151 10
9971391 9
9892878 9
10346131 9
10151677 9
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9996566 7
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ID: 27239 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
BetelgeuseFive

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Joined: 22 Sep 13
Posts: 11
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RAC: 9
Message 27244 - Posted: 30 Mar 2015, 16:12:21 UTC - in response to Message 27233.  

I am having an inconclusive against this host as well.
Looks like this host finishes each and every task in 2 seconds.
Weird thing is that some of them get validated, even against other tasks that do use (significant) amounts of CPU-time. Examples:

http://lhcathomeclassic.cern.ch/sixtrack/workunit.php?wuid=30270731
http://lhcathomeclassic.cern.ch/sixtrack/workunit.php?wuid=30273145
http://lhcathomeclassic.cern.ch/sixtrack/workunit.php?wuid=30279506
http://lhcathomeclassic.cern.ch/sixtrack/workunit.php?wuid=30275400

Tom

Same problem cause of that host.

I've got inconclusive validation for 2 or 3 ~8h tasks, that means 1 core-day wasted. A bit frustrating.

Thank you for your support.
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