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Oxize

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Message 21631 - Posted: 18 Nov 2009, 16:48:24 UTC
Last modified: 18 Nov 2009, 16:52:09 UTC

Scientist Walter Wagner was this week on Coast to Coast AM talking again about the dangers of the LHC.

In april this year he tried this through the internet. If you listen closely to the Radio recording on youtube, he didnt do his homework.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuwLLgY6gpo&feature=related

He was talking again over potentional blackholes which can survive longer then then some milliseconds.

Also he was talking only about 1 project which the LHC is being used for (Higgs Boson). For i know it will be used for several project. Projects like finding Higgs Boson ofcourse, Researching anti-matter, the Cloud project, etc etc.

What wrong with those Scientist like \"Walter Wagner\". Cern Scientists and even Stephen Hawking told several times that its not possible that a black hole survive. Even after a goverment research which delayed the project 1,5 year ago.

Its time to start the collisions!!!


edit:

Some quote from DailyGalaxy this April, which understand what kind a person Walter Wagner is.

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Mr Wagner bills himself as a "Nuclear Physicist" based on a physics minor at college and some work in a veteran's hospital with nuclear medicine. By these standards someone who lives by the beach is a qualified lifeguard and if you've ever seen Starship Troopers then congratulations, you're an astronaut! He's interspersed this time with three years in law school, being a grade-school teacher, and most recently work for a Hawaii botanical center. Either he's not actually very good at anything or he's the reincarnation of Leonardi DaVinci.

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Grutte Pier [Wa oars]~GP500

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Message 21636 - Posted: 19 Nov 2009, 17:32:38 UTC - in response to Message 21631.  


Mr Wagner bills himself as a \"Nuclear Physicist\" based on a physics minor at college and some work in a veteran\'s hospital with nuclear medicine. By these standards someone who lives by the beach is a qualified lifeguard and if you\'ve ever seen Starship Troopers then congratulations, you\'re an astronaut! He\'s interspersed this time with three years in law school, being a grade-school teacher, and most recently work for a Hawaii botanical center. Either he\'s not actually very good at anything or he\'s the reincarnation of Leonardi DaVinci.

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I love this creative Reply. It is a bit hard, but i love it ;) .
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Message 21638 - Posted: 19 Nov 2009, 18:15:58 UTC - in response to Message 21636.  
Last modified: 19 Nov 2009, 18:16:21 UTC

I wonder if this Mr Wagner is the real name of mrspinkbunny that posted the "Stop the LHC" thread? This guy probably isn't anymore than a low paid XRAY Tech calling himself a prophetical physicist. He sounds like a "QUACK!".
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Message 21652 - Posted: 21 Nov 2009, 17:20:27 UTC
Last modified: 21 Nov 2009, 17:23:35 UTC

Even if these tiny black holes -were- stable, the chances of them actually touching anything are infinitesimal. Consider this example: what would happen if the sun was suddenly changed into a black hole of the same mass? Would we get sucked in? No, because its mass is the same, our orbit would remain unchanged. In fact, because a black hole doesn\'t emit anything (aside from the theoretical hawking radiation that we really need quantum gravity to prove), and because in the case of the sun the horizon would only be about 3 kilometers across, planets could survive in a much tighter orbit than they can with our sun.

The same is true of particles - even if you did make a black hole out of two particles, chances are nothing would ever get close enough to fuse with it after that.

Personally I find the cosmic rays argument the most convincing: cosmic rays constantly bombard our atmosphere, some of them at far higher energies than the LHC is capable of producing. If black holes really could be produced in these collisions and they really -were- dangerous, we probably wouldn\'t be here right now.

All of this is really very elementary - took the astronomer I got it from all of half an hour to explain in an introductory astronomy class, and that's being generous. I really don't understand why people have so much trouble with it.
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Message 21658 - Posted: 21 Nov 2009, 18:55:20 UTC - in response to Message 21652.  
Last modified: 21 Nov 2009, 19:08:47 UTC

I really don't understand why people have so much trouble with it.

Thank you Ver Greeneyes for that nice responce. It would be so much simpler if others could understand the concept, " Matter can neither be created or destroyed within our Universe, only change can occur." You are right. There simply isn't enough matter to create an event horizon else we would see Black Holes formed from every collapsed star in our galaxy, and even right in front of our nose from those very same collisions that occur from gamma rays. People don't seem to understand how unimaginably small particles really are and that they exist relatively without mass. However imagination seems to be the influence among the uneducated here. Remember the "WAR OF THE WORLDS" radio broadcast, October 30th 1938, that caused panic and suicide? I wish we could educate people like Walter Wagner, but I'm afraid his influences are rooted deep in the mind's imagination. And what are people going to do when 12-21-2012 passes and nothing happens. Will they allow another imagined Extinction Level Event to cause them panic and fear over nothing but the "Human Imagination"?
NAGILUM


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Message 21664 - Posted: 22 Nov 2009, 20:47:59 UTC
Last modified: 22 Nov 2009, 20:50:17 UTC

While browsing the internet for Walter L. Wagner, I found a humorous video interview from The Daily Show that pretty much portrays him as "A Doomsday Idiot". He really should try studying Physics beyond what we learned in Chemistry 101. The first guy in the interview is Dr. John Ellis,a real Physicist that knows his stuff, but when Walter Wagner is interviewed he can't produce a single scientific fact.
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Message 21676 - Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 20:16:21 UTC

Calling this guy a \"scientist\" is like calling a guy who read a couple of chapters in a book on first aid a doctor.
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Message 21700 - Posted: 1 Dec 2009, 19:09:53 UTC - in response to Message 21652.  

Even if these tiny black holes -were- stable, the chances of them actually touching anything are infinitesimal. Consider this example: what would happen if the sun was suddenly changed into a black hole of the same mass? Would we get sucked in? No, because its mass is the same, our orbit would remain unchanged. In fact, because a black hole doesn\\\\\\\'t emit anything (aside from the theoretical hawking radiation that we really need quantum gravity to prove), and because in the case of the sun the horizon would only be about 3 kilometers across, planets could survive in a much tighter orbit than they can with our sun.

The same is true of particles - even if you did make a black hole out of two particles, chances are nothing would ever get close enough to fuse with it after that.

Personally I find the cosmic rays argument the most convincing: cosmic rays constantly bombard our atmosphere, some of them at far higher energies than the LHC is capable of producing. If black holes really could be produced in these collisions and they really -were- dangerous, we probably wouldn\\\\\\\'t be here right now.

All of this is really very elementary - took the astronomer I got it from all of half an hour to explain in an introductory astronomy class, and that\\\'s being generous. I really don\\\'t understand why people have so much trouble with it.


What about: http://lhc-concern.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/un-communication-lhc-cern-concerned-international.pdf

Are they all idiots?

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Message 21800 - Posted: 21 Jan 2010, 16:51:19 UTC - in response to Message 21652.  

Personally I find the cosmic rays argument the most convincing: cosmic rays constantly bombard our atmosphere, some of them at far higher energies than the LHC is capable of producing. If black holes really could be produced in these collisions and they really -were- dangerous, we probably wouldn\\\'t be here right now.


Though this is not the best explanation why LHC wont harm us, could happen the black holes produced in upper atmosphere all get enough speed to leave Earths gravitation...

Whatever, ive been to CERN recently and talked to some guys there...
A better argument is, that black holes can be created by cosmic rays on Neutron stars, where they emerge much closer to a significantly higher mass (\"atmosphere\" of a neutron star is assuemd to be about 1m iirc).
so, if this happens there, why are there still any neutron stars we can observe, and why are those staying so long?
Okay, you could put in some asumptions on neutron stars, but those you would need to have it work on earth and not on neutron stars are quite...strange.
Usually, at that point most physicians end the discussion for not giving the other side the opportunity to make a complete fool of themselves...
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Message 21802 - Posted: 23 Jan 2010, 17:50:24 UTC - in response to Message 21800.  
Last modified: 23 Jan 2010, 17:51:30 UTC


Usually, at that point most physicians end the discussion for not giving the other side the opportunity to make a complete fool of themselves...

This is where "Walter Wagner" comes into play. He's fallen so deep into the "Fools Argument", that his only hope regaining self esteem is to get lucky and prove one of his SCIENTIFIC PROPHESY'S has merit. He's no better than that foolish TV Evangelist that said, "The earth quake that hit Haiti was the wrath of God for an evil people".

To appologize now for being wrong would expose these people for the fool's they realy are and ruin their careers of public deception that has made them filthy rich.
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Message 22371 - Posted: 8 Jun 2010, 5:07:50 UTC
Last modified: 8 Jun 2010, 5:10:21 UTC

Ok six months later and "Walter Wagner" has been proved wrong. As usual, ignorance standing in the way of finding the truth. That's been a standard of the ignorant mind since before Constantine converted to christianity. Many intelligent people have died by the same foolish ignorance as supported by Walter Wagner's theorys. I suppose now Wagner can focus on the end-of-the-world started by an underwater oil spill.
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