Message boards : Number crunching : When can we expect new work??
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Filipe

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Message 17253 - Posted: 4 Jul 2007, 20:41:24 UTC

When can we expect new work?? And how much? 10K? 50k?
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Profile Neasan
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Message 17261 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 7:39:02 UTC - in response to Message 17253.  

When can we expect new work?? And how much? 10K? 50k?

NEVER!!!! *Maniacal Laugh*

You will get work when there is work to be done. This isn't SETI or other projects which have, pretty much, an infinite amount of WUs. Work is created for here by scientists/engineers who need to test certain things to do with the LHC ring and the beams. This means there is a finite amount of work to be done at any one time and sometimes that number is zero.

Another post slightly further done asked about any "batches scheduled to be loaded to LHC@Home for crunching and .. porting of new applications" We are in talks with the people who generate the work and they have work planned which we hope to have soon but it is entirely 100% up to them when they are ready to submit and analyse the data.

Regarding porting new software this is something which we hope will get done over the summer but a) the software for any of the LHC experiments is designed to do the job which means it isn't necessarily the most economic or streamlined b) porting to BOINC isn't a cake walk. Taking a and b into account means that porting LHC software won't happen over night.

Look I realise this is frustrating, I know how you feel. Alex and I are as anxious as you to get this running smoothly and as soon as possible we'd love for the server status to say that there was work both to be done and being done and that is what we are aiming for.

Also please note, and this is to everyone, if I see another thread on this topic I will delete it, can you not read the sticky at the top of the forum?
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Message 17265 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 12:26:32 UTC

Thank you, Neasan, for clearly outlining the conditions under which you must operate. I'm hopeful that everyone out here appreciates your patience which shows in the operation of the BOINC/LHC project(s) -- and my small computer "garden" will continue to poll your server for work. Until then ...


If I've lived this long, I've gotta be that old
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Message 17268 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 17:23:35 UTC

This is not my only project; I run SETIHome, climateprediction.net, Einstein@Home & Primegrid. But LHC has by far the best looking screen saver and for that reason alone I wish for more work! Geek chicks also dig particle physics...
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Profile Nightbird

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Message 17269 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 19:52:32 UTC - in response to Message 17261.  
Last modified: 5 Jul 2007, 19:53:57 UTC

---------

Also please note, and this is to everyone, if I see another thread on this topic I will delete it, can you not read the sticky at the top of the forum?

Why do you want to delete the post ? Obviously, people don't see or/and read posts.
That's pretty usual.
Move it to the sticky thread and send an email "Reason : ..... It will be mailed if nonempty"


Do you want to get banned for 31 years, your account and credits deleted at a Boinc project ? Predictor@home is your best choice.
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Message 17273 - Posted: 6 Jul 2007, 2:56:48 UTC - in response to Message 17261.  

When can we expect new work?? And how much? 10K? 50k?

NEVER!!!! *Maniacal Laugh*

You will get work when there is work to be done. This isn't SETI or other projects which have, pretty much, an infinite amount of WUs. Work is created for here by scientists/engineers who need to test certain things to do with the LHC ring and the beams. This means there is a finite amount of work to be done at any one time and sometimes that number is zero.

Another post slightly further done asked about any "batches scheduled to be loaded to LHC@Home for crunching and .. porting of new applications" We are in talks with the people who generate the work and they have work planned which we hope to have soon but it is entirely 100% up to them when they are ready to submit and analyse the data.

Regarding porting new software this is something which we hope will get done over the summer but a) the software for any of the LHC experiments is designed to do the job which means it isn't necessarily the most economic or streamlined b) porting to BOINC isn't a cake walk. Taking a and b into account means that porting LHC software won't happen over night.

Look I realise this is frustrating, I know how you feel. Alex and I are as anxious as you to get this running smoothly and as soon as possible we'd love for the server status to say that there was work both to be done and being done and that is what we are aiming for.

Also please note, and this is to everyone, if I see another thread on this topic I will delete it, can you not read the sticky at the top of the forum?



I don't mind waiting for some of your work as I have a few other projects, but for sure I believe the tone of your message is definitely out of order.

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Message 17275 - Posted: 6 Jul 2007, 9:17:48 UTC

I agree entirely. If you`re going to insult people merely because they have been waiting patiently for 7 months to help this project, then I think that`s a very poor attitude.
I will have no further part in LHC@home.

Rick.


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Profile Neasan
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Message 17276 - Posted: 6 Jul 2007, 9:55:46 UTC

To start we are as frustrated as you with the lack of work but if the scientists don't need/have WUs to be crunched the there are no WUs to be crunched. We also appreciate everyone's patience with us and the work that you all do for us voluntarily.

I'm sorry if anyone feels insulted by my post but we are working hard here to try and get you some work and then I log on here and everyday there is a new topic created by someone complaining that there is no work.

In various posts it has been suggested the project is dead, that LHC@home is nothing but a place holder website, we are making this up as we go along and have no plan or schedule.

The inference from most of these posts and the replies is that we are sitting here stringing you along and having a laugh at your expense, nothing could be further from the truth.

As pointed out again and again and again by myself and numerous people on this message board and in the sticky at the very top of the page titled "Please note: this project rarely has work" LHC@home is not a stand alone project at the moment. You lose nothing by attaching to other projects and polling LHC less regularly.

My post was not meant to come across with a "tone" I was setting out our position and I'm sorry if people enjoy reading post, after post, after post about the lack of WUs on LHC@home but with a new one every day and sometimes two a day when we have a) a sticky explaining the situation perfectly (thanks River~~) and b) other posts asking the same question it gets a little tiring and each poster is casting aspersions on the LHC@home team's ability to do our job.
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Brian Silvers

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Message 17278 - Posted: 6 Jul 2007, 13:01:02 UTC - in response to Message 17275.  

I agree entirely. If you`re going to insult people merely because they have been waiting patiently for 7 months to help this project, then I think that`s a very poor attitude.
I will have no further part in LHC@home.

Rick.



OTOH, quite a few of us who just joined this year completely understand that the purpose of this project is to fine-tune something that is still under construction. If there has not been a change in the overall "thing" that is the LHC, then there's essentially "no additional data" for any of us to do anything with. For us to process meangingless data just so that there is data being processed is, well, meaningless... It would be a waste of processing power...

Data collected by the two other projects I'm attached to (SETI and Einstein) is coming in all the time.

I don't know why the folks complaining so much about the lack of work here get so worked up about it. Just attach to another project and do work there, or turn your systems off and conserve electricity...

IMO, YMMV, etc, etc, etc...
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daemion

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Message 17281 - Posted: 6 Jul 2007, 15:41:17 UTC

you guys seriously need to take a chill pill. how can you get offended over distributed computing? if you think the very slightly tongue in cheek comments made by Neasan are offensive then you should pray that you never read a reply from Dagorath to your whinny posts.

honestly, check the news, the LHC program is still at least a year away from completion. it is after all, the world's largest machine ever built, these things take time.

so before you get offended, take some time to figure it out for yourself before you pester people with constant threads about no new work and XML stats not being exported (see, they kept their word on that one). the information right in front you, THREE LINES AWAY FROM THE CREATE A NEW THREAD LINK!!!!
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Message 17282 - Posted: 6 Jul 2007, 17:57:05 UTC

I have to agree people are getting a bit worked up.

Like I said before, I love the amazing screen saver. It is by far my favorite of the Bionic projects I run, so I miss it. When there is work I will get my visuals back; until then I will wait patently and crunch other projects.
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Message 17284 - Posted: 6 Jul 2007, 19:29:43 UTC - in response to Message 17276.  

The inference from most of these posts and the replies is that we are sitting here stringing you along and having a laugh at your expense, nothing could be further from the truth.

I doubt many - if any - think you're delaying the crunching intentionally or to have a good laugh. And yes, I do think the "this project rarely has work" message has been said over and over, and does not need to be rehashed anymore.

BUT, IMHO, I think perhaps you made a mistake in posting this more than four months ago:

02.03.2007 16:00 UTC
Yes it is going slower than expected. It is a unique installation of BOINC (very unique) but it is moving ahead and we give you our current To Do List:
* Initial Database Migration
* Get test system working with database
* Ensure e-mail is working properly(trickier than it sounds)
* Test migrate again
* Real migration
* Sort out job submission over AFS by SixTrack User

This is going ahead at a pace to make sure that everything is working at every step of the way as opposed to trying to sort it out post a hasty install. So in a few weeks time the problems of yesteryear will seem like a bad dream that never happened and we'll all be happily crunching away. [emphasis mine.]
Later days,
Neasan and Alex.


Personally it doesn't matter to me when the WUs are ready to crunch. There's already plenty of work to go around with other projects, and the LHC WUs will be ready when they're ready. But it does seem from the above-quoted post - which is more than 4 months old now - that you had been basically promising folks to have work in "a few weeks." So while, yes, people would be better off just being patient, I don't think it's fair to chastise them for having expectations based on your own words. I realize it's out of your hands - I'm just saying, let's be fair to those who were hoping to be part of this (hopefully) history-making project sooner.

I think that's maybe at least part of the reason why there's so much anticipation and angst around the delays. For those who are interested in the science, we are obviously very close to a huge moment in physics, and all of us want to be part of it. We're all on the edge of our seats. And I think that's what's really going on, with many of us who are thirsting for WUs. It's excitement, not angst, I would guess, that is behind all the repetitive questions. If we could all just agree that there are no ulterior motives to the delays, that the admins are doing everything in their power to keep things moving, that WUs will be available as soon as humanly possible, and that we'll all eventually be able to take part (in whatever small capacity) in this ground-breaking project, then we'll all feel a little better. Someday hopefully soon, construction on the collider will be complete and we'll be crunching like hell to do what we can to help. Until then, kick back and dedicate your energies to the other wonderful projects that are going full-steam. Just MHO.
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Message 17290 - Posted: 7 Jul 2007, 4:19:45 UTC - in response to Message 17284.  

BUT, IMHO, I think perhaps you made a mistake in posting this more than four months ago:

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to be snide here - was just saying that it was probably a mistake to make promises on the timeline without knowing that WUs were definitely 100% coming en masse within a few weeks. I think this got everyone fired up to get started, only to be disappointed again. Hence the backlash.
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de schrik

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Message 17294 - Posted: 7 Jul 2007, 10:55:07 UTC

I read somewhere in Internet that LHC will start working in October, does that mean that we then can expect enough work for all of us, or is this only going to universities which cooporate with LHC?
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Message 17299 - Posted: 8 Jul 2007, 16:18:18 UTC

I see there's work around, could the server software please get updated, so that every boinc client is supported? thanks!!
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Message 17306 - Posted: 9 Jul 2007, 11:47:50 UTC - in response to Message 17294.  

I read somewhere in Internet that LHC will start working in October, does that mean that we then can expect enough work for all of us, or is this only going to universities which cooporate with LHC?

The LHC itself doesn't start till May 2008 now, October was a timeframe mentioned but not in polite company for a long time now a CERN press release confirmed recently that there will be no beam in the LHC till May.
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