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Brian Silvers

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Message 18612 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 21:41:23 UTC - in response to Message 18610.  
Last modified: 18 Nov 2007, 21:49:41 UTC


Here's one from 2005 that was granted credit:

http://lhcathome.cern.ch/lhcathome/result.php?resultid=694330

If you try to look at the WU, you get an error that says "workunit not found"


There is a difference between pending and orphaned. That resultID is an orphan, which is a different issue. This thread is speaking specifically about the 0.00xxx claimed credit units. The host 80808, which I assume is your host, has only 4 such results, all from October of this year. You will note that they are pending.

One should also take care to note that there is a difference between a result being orphaned and a result not being assimilated and purged. If a workunit header is found and the results come up along with it and the results have been validated and issued credit, that is a result that hasn't been through the assimilation process.

Like I said, I know for some that want to clean up their hosts, a delete is the "quick and easy" way from their perspective. From a scientific perspective, it should be in a different order. The way I'd do it?


    * Orphan ResultID: For every result that does not have a matching WU header, delete Result.
    * Validated WU that hasn't been Assimilated: Look at assimilator code to find out the cause and correct the cause.
    * 0.00xx claimed credit results that aren't validating: Look at validator code to find the cause and correct the cause.



Of course, all of this might be taken care of by the BOINC server-side code upgrade that still needs to be performed...

IMO, YMMV, etc, etc, etc...

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EclipseHA

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Message 18621 - Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 1:48:54 UTC - in response to Message 18612.  


Here's one from 2005 that was granted credit:

http://lhcathome.cern.ch/lhcathome/result.php?resultid=694330

If you try to look at the WU, you get an error that says "workunit not found"


There is a difference between pending and orphaned. That resultID is an orphan, which is a different issue. This thread is speaking specifically about the 0.00xxx claimed credit units. The host 80808, which I assume is your host, has only 4 such results, all from October of this year. You will note that they are pending.

One should also take care to note that there is a difference between a result being orphaned and a result not being assimilated and purged. If a workunit header is found and the results come up along with it and the results have been validated and issued credit, that is a result that hasn't been through the assimilation process.

Like I said, I know for some that want to clean up their hosts, a delete is the "quick and easy" way from their perspective. From a scientific perspective, it should be in a different order. The way I'd do it?


    * Orphan ResultID: For every result that does not have a matching WU header, delete Result.
    * Validated WU that hasn't been Assimilated: Look at assimilator code to find out the cause and correct the cause.
    * 0.00xx claimed credit results that aren't validating: Look at validator code to find the cause and correct the cause.



Of course, all of this might be taken care of by the BOINC server-side code upgrade that still needs to be performed...

IMO, YMMV, etc, etc, etc...



I understand that there are 2 different causes to the "zombie" WU's.. I've got about 30 of the 0.00xx pending, and maybe 20 of the "long lost granted" WU's (and two that errored out long ago...).

In both cases, however, it does incdicate a cleanup is in order!

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Brian Silvers

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Message 18624 - Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 3:17:30 UTC - in response to Message 18621.  


I understand that there are 2 different causes to the "zombie" WU's.. I've got about 30 of the 0.00xx pending, and maybe 20 of the "long lost granted" WU's (and two that errored out long ago...).

In both cases, however, it does incdicate a cleanup is in order!


Actually, there are 3 causes (missing WU header, validated without assimilation, and quorum formed without validation).

I only reacted to your post because it seemed to me that "cleanup" means "delete" for you. If that is not the case, sorry...

Brian
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EclipseHA

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Message 18626 - Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 4:54:22 UTC - in response to Message 18624.  


I understand that there are 2 different causes to the "zombie" WU's.. I've got about 30 of the 0.00xx pending, and maybe 20 of the "long lost granted" WU's (and two that errored out long ago...).

In both cases, however, it does incdicate a cleanup is in order!


Actually, there are 3 causes (missing WU header, validated without assimilation, and quorum formed without validation).

I only reacted to your post because it seemed to me that "cleanup" means "delete" for you. If that is not the case, sorry...

Brian



Delete, in the case of the zombies prior to the server move, does seem correct to me.. Heck, they're lost in the ozone! (preserving credits however)..


The "pendings" 0.00xxx aren't being used for anything right now, including ones from data runs 6 months ago!

They can fix the validator to give me my (in total .05) credit, or blast them.. I really don't care. As they are from "stale/old" data runs, I'll bet the data isn't real important to LHC either.

They can cleanup this stuff in anyway the project team wishes (delete or try to process), but that's their call - not yours or mine! All I know is that having a multipage bogus list of results is a pain..... I got stuff attached to a system I haven't even powered up in a year that prevents me from deleting that computer.

I'm just suggesting that a cleanup is in order! It's up to the project staff to determine the best way to do that....

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Profile [B^S] ShanerX

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Message 18660 - Posted: 3 Dec 2007, 19:25:27 UTC

I don't feel so bad now ... have less than 60 'pending' from different runs this year. Hopefully cleanup/housekeeping will be at top of the 'Wish List', or better yet resolved when newer code is implemented. I've had more success at 'merging' if possible as opposed to waiting to 'delete' an old pc. Otherwise, you really don't see the old ones unless you click on the 'All Hosts' link. One step at a time, we'll get there!

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KWSN Sir Clark
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Message 18678 - Posted: 9 Dec 2007, 14:35:36 UTC

I noticed theere was a result that was still in my results list from 2005.
I took a look at the WUID page and it showed there was still a user awaiting credit.

When I went to his page I found a whole bunch which hadn't been granted credit.

Any ideas??

http://lhcathome.cern.ch/lhcathome/results.php?hostid=57351


www.chris-kent.co.uk aka Chief.com
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Profile Kibble

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Message 18699 - Posted: 13 Dec 2007, 7:25:18 UTC

I don't feel too bad about the issue now. I only have one pending result from 1 Nov 2007. Waiting for new code to automatically clean up ghosts is not a problem. I just worry that the staff may have to pore over many pages in the data base manually doing the delete trick until an update to the code is finished.

Kibble
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Message 18790 - Posted: 2 Jan 2008, 9:22:43 UTC

I've got some pending from nov. too fyi
-----------------------
Click to see my tag
My tag
SNAFU'ed? Turn the Page! :D
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otij

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Message 18800 - Posted: 3 Jan 2008, 3:28:12 UTC

i have pending credits also ,
the cpu time is wrong and also there is lot of missing wus
check:

http://lhcathome.cern.ch/lhcathome/results.php?hostid=9622447
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Klimax

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Message 18807 - Posted: 4 Jan 2008, 7:14:23 UTC

Well,I can join the club...

With this nice WU(out of some):
10409706 9626561 20 Dec 2007 6:19:06 UTC 20 Dec 2007 20:13:56 UTC Over Success Done 1.06s
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CharlyD

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Message 18901 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 23:46:34 UTC

Hello Admins,

With the date of today, I have 6 pending credits!!!
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Profile FalconFly
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Message 18915 - Posted: 29 Jan 2008, 8:22:00 UTC - in response to Message 18901.  

I'd like to join, and hope the Admins clean up the old remains.

Oldest Pending : 27 Jan 2006
~18 Pages of 0.00 Pending Credit Results
Scientific Network : 45000 MHz - 77824 MB - 1970 GB
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Profile Snowdog of TSBT

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Message 18923 - Posted: 29 Jan 2008, 23:12:22 UTC

Its a big club, I have 66 pending 0.00 credits and my oldest pending back to Nov 2006.

I'm sure it will get fixed eventually and its no gripe on my part.

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Ariel
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Message 18925 - Posted: 30 Jan 2008, 1:01:00 UTC
Last modified: 30 Jan 2008, 1:04:56 UTC

Hi. Just thought I'd troll in with an annoying comment:

I have a few old pending credits.....
and I don't give a rat's ass whether or not I get paid.

You can't buy a car with BOINC credits.
Bragging rights are for the emotionally frail.

Please,
Love the scientific work you do, and shut the f**k up.

Oops! That wasn't so cute.
Maybe, with some luck, I will again be regarded as one of the "Most Fearless" Crunchers on LHC.

Doubtful.

[Love & Kisses] . . . ;}*




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EclipseHA

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Message 18930 - Posted: 30 Jan 2008, 3:00:56 UTC - in response to Message 18925.  

Hi. Just thought I'd troll in with an annoying comment:

I have a few old pending credits.....
and I don't give a rat's ass whether or not I get paid.

You can't buy a car with BOINC credits.
Bragging rights are for the emotionally frail.

Please,
Love the scientific work you do, and shut the f**k up.

Oops! That wasn't so cute.
Maybe, with some luck, I will again be regarded as one of the "Most Fearless" Crunchers on LHC.

Doubtful.

[Love & Kisses] . . . ;}*



It's not about getting the credit, but it's more of a "tidy things up" request..

Right now, I got about 4+ pages of the 0.00xx pending WU's, and another page or so of "moldy ones" (credit granted, but they don't go away!)

Just think of the 1000's or even 100's of thousands of "weird and old" records in the database.

Part of any science is to keep your lab clean and organized. I liek the science, but seems the DB is a bit of a mess.....

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Profile FalconFly
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Message 18933 - Posted: 30 Jan 2008, 10:22:47 UTC - in response to Message 18930.  

Indeed, work done is work done, but seeing LHC not tidying up the few remaining Problems... it just looks like the transition to the new maintainers is somehow still incomplete after all this time.

I like projects 'clean' with all the small advantages that come with that.
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Ariel
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Message 18934 - Posted: 30 Jan 2008, 12:56:33 UTC - in response to Message 18933.  

azwoody said: It's not about getting the credit, but it's more of a "tidy things up" request..

Right now, I got about 4+ pages of the 0.00xx pending WU's, and another page or so of "moldy ones" (credit granted, but they don't go away!)

Just think of the 1000's or even 100's of thousands of "weird and old" records in the database.

Part of any science is to keep your lab clean and organized. I liek the science, but seems the DB is a bit of a mess.....

And
FalconFly said: Indeed, work done is work done, but seeing LHC not tidying up the few remaining Problems... it just looks like the transition to the new maintainers is somehow still incomplete after all this time.

I like projects 'clean' with all the small advantages that come with that.


Excellent points. I'm so mad I didn't get flamed! You guys are too smart for me. My fishing exposition is a failure. I remember a time when the LHC@home fora were full of numbnuts who would always crowd the entrance of a "troll bridge" ...but those were the good ol' days.

Thanks for playing:
You win.
I lose.

[kiss] ;}*




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Ariel
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Message 18937 - Posted: 30 Jan 2008, 15:14:44 UTC

Expedition. dur.

Anyway, thanks again for being such gentlemen; I just read the entire thread and you guys are really cool (OMG, is she from Silicon Valley?.. yup, I am. Fur sure... well, a bit North of Sil Val right now.)

Let's make some black holes!

Luv ya'll

;)




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Empie

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Message 18939 - Posted: 30 Jan 2008, 17:15:25 UTC

I too have pending wu's. I don't understand why the admins don't clean it up.
Just like in IT, if you have a server with lots of errors or warnings, how much do you trust it? Technically it might be ok, but it sure will not give you 100% confidence.
But than again, I like to support LHC in their efforts and will keep crunching when wu's are available.


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Jayargh

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Message 18970 - Posted: 8 Feb 2008, 3:04:42 UTC

I find it very interesting that there has been NO response to this thread from any administrators.....why? This thread is 7 months old!!!! It is an issue...I have pending going back almost 2 years that haven't been cleaned up preventing me from cleaning up my host list.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Stil a pending credit


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