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Profile The Gas Giant

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Message 14117 - Posted: 22 Jun 2006, 19:36:28 UTC

I might be a little tired and emotional right now (it's 5:15am), but I am extremely concerned regarding the lack of support for this project from within the CERN organisation. Of the past four runs, three of them have had problems where we volunteers have lost credit for their contributions. Twice due to the lack of a UPS on the database and it appears now with the change in DNS it has messed something up that is not allowing the validator to validate returned results. Not to menton the fact that we had to stop and restart BOINC just to get it to upload completed work for LHC. I have not seen these sort of issues with any other project. I like this project and will persevere, however I will be getting more vocal about it. This really isn't the way to treat a significant and benficial resource. We are spending real time and money supporting this project, CERN need to start showing a committment to this project. Does CERN know that it is cheaper to support the BOINC concept than it is to find the resources elsewhere?

Live long and crunch.

Paul
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Message 14138 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 15:26:52 UTC

Yes i do feel a bit alone on this project. Im also crunching malaria, seti beta and einstein(sp?). In all of those i see something done when things go boom. In this one theres no mesage from anyone except the ex-admin about it being fixed. It just dies then works again one day. I enjoy this project and its the one now getting the lions share of my two admitedly slow machines. I will throw more at it as i gain faster machines but id love to see someone at CERN take an interest. Ive invested hours and hours in this project. I just wish someone at CERN would too.
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Philip Martin Kryder

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Message 14139 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 15:45:37 UTC - in response to Message 14117.  

I might be a little tired and emotional right now (it's 5:15am), but I am extremely concerned regarding the lack of support for this project from within the CERN organisation. Of the past four runs, three of them have had problems where we volunteers have lost credit for their contributions. Twice due to the lack of a UPS on the database and it appears now with the change in DNS it has messed something up that is not allowing the validator to validate returned results. Not to menton the fact that we had to stop and restart BOINC just to get it to upload completed work for LHC. I have not seen these sort of issues with any other project. I like this project and will persevere, however I will be getting more vocal about it. This really isn't the way to treat a significant and benficial resource. We are spending real time and money supporting this project, CERN need to start showing a committment to this project. Does CERN know that it is cheaper to support the BOINC concept than it is to find the resources elsewhere?

Live long and crunch.


But yet, there are many, many crunchers complaining about the lack of work.
The implication is that the number of crunchers greatly exceeds the need.

so, you might do well, given your feelings to just move on to other projects.


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Message 14141 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 18:14:37 UTC - in response to Message 14117.  

i have to agree with the gas giant.
the lack of info from lhc is almost shoking.

@ philip martin kryder: we know this project, we are not complaning about the lack of work. as you can see, we like this project, so i think we will stay.
(i do not know the gas giant, maybe i can just read better what he is saying.)

friendly greetings,
bas

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Message 14143 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 20:26:50 UTC - in response to Message 14139.  
Last modified: 23 Jun 2006, 20:28:12 UTC


But yet, there are many, many crunchers complaining about the lack of work.
The implication is that the number of crunchers greatly exceeds the need.

so, you might do well, given your feelings to just move on to other projects.


Um??? Ok u lost me is it if you dont like it leave? Rather nice way to put it
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Message 14144 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 20:34:31 UTC - in response to Message 14117.  
Last modified: 23 Jun 2006, 20:40:03 UTC

...I am extremely concerned regarding the lack of support for this project from within the CERN organisation...

Ack Paul, but as volunteers, we get what we pay for, yes?

[edit]
It's not to say that we can't or shouldn't complain, but more to the point that we know that the complaints hotline is down due to project constraints, so don't expect any meaningful answers at the moment.
[/edit]
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Gaspode the UnDressed

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Message 14145 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 21:15:43 UTC - in response to Message 14144.  

...I am extremely concerned regarding the lack of support for this project from within the CERN organisation...

Ack Paul, but as volunteers, we get what we pay for, yes?

[edit]
It's not to say that we can't or shouldn't complain, but more to the point that we know that the complaints hotline is down due to project constraints, so don't expect any meaningful answers at the moment.
[/edit]



I contacted Ben Segal this morning about the database problems. He's the LHC@Home project manager. He responded within an hour, but he's now waiting for one of the techies to get on to it.

On the plus side, CERN know about the problems.

On the minus side, they have no dedicated resource to fix them.

Sorry...


Gaspode the UnDressed
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Message 14146 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 21:31:58 UTC - in response to Message 14144.  

[quote]...I am extremely concerned regarding the lack of support for this project from within the CERN organisation...

Ack Paul, but as volunteers, we get what we pay for, yes?

no, we donate. which makes us donators. therefore we do not get what we pay for. and yes, we donate voluntarily, you might see the difference.

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bass4lhc

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Message 14148 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 21:45:31 UTC - in response to Message 14145.  

I contacted Ben Segal this morning about the database problems. He's the LHC@Home project manager. He responded within an hour, but he's now waiting for one of the techies to get on to it.

On the plus side, CERN know about the problems.

On the minus side, they have no dedicated resource to fix them.

Sorry...


mike, thanks for your post. i am sure we all understand the problem.

this does however not change my complaint, there is simply no information. once every 6 weeks some minor new info on the site is the same as no info at all. we donate our time. the time ben segal took to answer you could have been used to answer us all.
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Profile The Gas Giant

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Message 14149 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 21:54:31 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jun 2006, 21:56:00 UTC

I'm not saying that LHC@home needs a full time administrator, just someone who has it within their job description to look into the project once or twice a day to see how it is going and to fix any problems. This is not too much to suggest. We have how many active participants? Like any organisation with a large volunteer base, the volunteers need to be supported by paid individuals at the front end especially when that organisation is avoiding spending large amounts of money by utilising the volunteers and getting something valuable in return.

In effect we all pay a subscription every time we crunch for this project and act on good faith that our contributions will be acknowledged by granting us credit. I understand that we are a commodity and the required acknowledgment and support can be substantially diluted, but that doesn't make it right.

As I said down below. I like this project. I like distributed computing. I will not be going away, just getting a little more vocal where issues have a negative effect on the project. If we sit back and not say anything is that the right course to take? If we had done that then the LHC@home admins would not have even known about the issues that have arisen with the last few runs. Suggesting people pack up and leave when they don't like something and put their thoughts in a constructive manner shows a lack of understanding about the issues. We are volunteers, but some of us also have constructive opinions.

Here's hoping the problem gets fixed soon. I am surprised that it is taking so long to fix (well maybe not).

Live long and crunch.

Paul.
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Profile Steve Cressman
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Message 14150 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 22:01:32 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jun 2006, 22:06:26 UTC

I'm with TheGasGiant on this and have stated much the same thing in other threads.
Yes We are volunteers and should not expect anything in return. However I feel that the amount of work the project puts into the Boinc part of things should reflect the projects appreciation of the free resourses that we make available to them to use. And right now, if you look at it that way I just described, it looks like they don't give a crap.
I joined this project a long time ago and plan to stay now that I'm back. I had an extended absence from this project that had nothing to do with this project. Had other alpha and beta projects to work on after LHC went live. Why will I stay, because I beleive the project does appreciate us. Even tho they have forgotten how to show it.
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Message 14151 - Posted: 23 Jun 2006, 22:26:59 UTC - in response to Message 14150.  
Last modified: 23 Jun 2006, 22:27:40 UTC

Why will I stay, because I beleive the project does appreciate us. Even tho they have forgotten how to show it.


That's my opinion, too. But I think it's a shame that CERN doesn't use the pc power donated (maybe they have enough internal pcs?) but they don't care. Now they don't need us but when the LHC is up and running in 2007 or later, the amounts of data produced maybe could be split into small wus and then they could get (a great?) benefit out of us, but I guess the chances are bad on that.
Let's hope they haven't forgotten about this project ;-)
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Philip Martin Kryder

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Message 14158 - Posted: 24 Jun 2006, 1:01:42 UTC - in response to Message 14143.  


But yet, there are many, many crunchers complaining about the lack of work.
The implication is that the number of crunchers greatly exceeds the need.

so, you might do well, given your feelings to just move on to other projects.


Um??? Ok u lost me is it if you dont like it leave? Rather nice way to put it


Actually, no.

It's more along the lines of there many waiting to take your place - Based on the other threads complaining of lack of work.

So from an economic viewpoint, it doesn't pay LHC to spend more on support than is necessary.

And, rather than complain, by monving elsewhere, the imposition of a shortage of volunteers may have an effect to convince LHC, where other methods seem to have proven ineffective.
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Message 14167 - Posted: 24 Jun 2006, 10:43:56 UTC

Gl├Ždelig Sankt Hans to everyone. (happy midsummer)

I think the server should be running ok again, but i am a bit tired having been up all night burning as much forest as i could get my hands on, as my scandinavian heritage bids me. :-)

Some news: The server will probably be moved to a new machine in the beginning of august. I will lend a hand on my way through switzerland on my summer holliday. I might have time to look into some of the other issues, but i cannot promise it, since my new job might require me to do other work at CERN.

A big problem with the linking of Garfield on windows has been solved. So it might soon be ready for deployment on the public lhc@home.

cheers,
Chrulle
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Message 14168 - Posted: 24 Jun 2006, 11:07:04 UTC - in response to Message 14167.  
Last modified: 24 Jun 2006, 11:11:44 UTC

Gl├Ždelig Sankt Hans to everyone. (happy midsummer)

I think the server should be running ok again, but i am a bit tired having been up all night burning as much forest as i could get my hands on, as my scandinavian heritage bids me. :-)

Some news: The server will probably be moved to a new machine in the beginning of august. I will lend a hand on my way through switzerland on my summer holliday. I might have time to look into some of the other issues, but i cannot promise it, since my new job might require me to do other work at CERN.

A big problem with the linking of Garfield on windows has been solved. So it might soon be ready for deployment on the public lhc@home.

cheers,
Chrulle

Midwinter here...but what the hey! LHC is back! You the man Chrulle.

I'm willing to use a few cycles helping on testing of Garfield if you want.
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Message 14169 - Posted: 24 Jun 2006, 11:15:56 UTC - in response to Message 14168.  


Midwinter here...but what the hey! LHC is back! You the man Chrulle.

I'm willing to use a few cycles helping on testing of Garfield if you want.


Well, that is not up to me, but i will let you know when i hear anything more about garfield.

Chrulle
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Profile The Gas Giant

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Message 14170 - Posted: 24 Jun 2006, 11:59:21 UTC - in response to Message 14169.  


Midwinter here...but what the hey! LHC is back! You the man Chrulle.

I'm willing to use a few cycles helping on testing of Garfield if you want.


Well, that is not up to me, but i will let you know when i hear anything more about garfield.

Can you also please check that the validator is running. I have uploaded a wu and it is still pending...as is all the others from before today, but I expect them to not be granted.
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Message 14173 - Posted: 24 Jun 2006, 16:29:33 UTC

And while you're at it... is db_dump running? There hasn't been any new XML in almost 70 hours. Obviously with the database problems that is understandable and it is possible that it just hasn't run yet since you fixed things. But if you could double-check while you're at it that would be great :)
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Message 14183 - Posted: 25 Jun 2006, 13:00:03 UTC - in response to Message 14149.  

I'm not saying that LHC@home needs a full time administrator, just someone who has it within their job description to look into the project once or twice a day to see how it is going and to fix any problems. This is not too much to suggest. We have how many active participants? Like any organisation with a large volunteer base, the volunteers need to be supported by paid individuals at the front end especially when that organisation is avoiding spending large amounts of money by utilising the volunteers and getting something valuable in return.

...

Paul.


Yes, Paul, we are in complete agreement about that requirement but at the moment we are not in that happy situation here.

The necessary sysadmin effort for LHC@home (quite small except for "crisis" times) has been supplied in the past by students and research fellows as a part of their overall work. Right now we have nobody with the right profile, though we hope this will change soon.

With Chrulle's generous help we've fixed that urgent database problem but basically we are running "best effort" for the moment. Please be patient!

Clearly, if the new Garfield application is to be hosted, correct sysadmin effort must be found first.

Best regards to all crunchers,

Ben Segal / LHC@home

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Message 14184 - Posted: 25 Jun 2006, 13:56:11 UTC


Ben - thanks for the feedback. And a HUGE thank you to Chrulle for everything he has done!

We realize that you are in a difficult position but let's hope the 'top brass' guys have seen what has happened here and do appoint someone to look after the 'invisible army' of crunchers.

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