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Profile peterthomas

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Message 13065 - Posted: 19 Mar 2006, 7:23:21 UTC

Maybe its just a case of sour grapes but after no work for almost a month I think that it is justified.

Having my systems hammering away at LHC@home for work and only getting the usual response is not only wasteing my bandwith but also putting excess load on the project servers. This is not good.

Several times it has been suggested to run concurrent studies in an attempt to create more work, this however has not come to be.

Sadly it appears that this is like any other volunteer organisation in its hurry up and wait attitude. The project asked for all its participants and now they don't know what to do with them.

Due to this, I feel that my efforts and resources could be better used by other projects. This is not something that I want to do as a like the LHC project.

I'll wait and see what happens this week before making a final decision on wheather I remain donating resources to this project.
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Gaspode the UnDressed

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Message 13066 - Posted: 19 Mar 2006, 10:37:38 UTC

Perfectly happy, thank you.

Systems are all busy with science projects. No down time. No problem.

Ohh - I notice there's no LHC work at present. Never mind. BOINC allows me to run other projects to use the available time.

===================================================================
Peter, this is not your project - it's CERN's. If they need a large user base (their's is actually the smallest of the production projects) to complete their studies quickly that's their prerogative. If they can't run continuous studies that is also their decision. LHC@Home has always been this way.

If this doesn't suit you then there are plenty of other projects you can run, with BOINC and without. Rather than filling the forums with invective, just find a project better suited to your wishes.


Gaspode the UnDressed
http://www.littlevale.co.uk
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Osku87

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Message 13067 - Posted: 19 Mar 2006, 12:01:34 UTC

As MikeW said this projects nature is to be without work for sometime and then there comes a new bunch of work. That's why BOINC makes possible to keep several projects. So I would suggest that you keep LHC in your projects with 99% work share. Then take for example Rosetta or Einstein (or which is your second favourite project) with 1% share and last take Predictor or another of those above (or which is your third favourite project) as third with 0% of work share. So your machines have always work. Even when a couple of projects are without work or under maintenance.
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Profile Ocean Archer
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Message 13068 - Posted: 19 Mar 2006, 13:56:22 UTC

Parceling the available computer time out between two or more programs (LHC, SETI, etc) is/was (I think/thought) the reason for BOINC in the first place. I've got my machines happily ticking away on the various projects, and so what if one of the jobs is temporarily out of work? THAT'S WHAT BOINC DOES!!! It shares my spare computing power to those various projects that are currently running.

Go to your local refreshment area and obtain a beverage of your choice, and that fence you see in fron of you -- GET OVER IT



If I've lived this long, I've gotta be that old
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Bengt Larsson

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Message 13071 - Posted: 19 Mar 2006, 19:38:50 UTC

I think the BOINC client should back off and only try once per day after a long period of outage or no work. I have set "No new work" but as I recall, it tries every few hours.
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Chaz

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Message 13072 - Posted: 19 Mar 2006, 22:23:07 UTC

It is my understanding that they are evaluating the results of the last lot of work we did so they can develop the next study. I tend to suspend LHC@home when there is no work and just check this site regularly and reactivate once work appears rather than have my system trying to call for new work all the time. My CPU is crunching either Predictor or Fighting Aids as I write. I am really pleased to think that I have made a contribution, no matter how small, to the development of the LHC.
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Profile anarchic teapot

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Message 13073 - Posted: 19 Mar 2006, 23:30:15 UTC
Last modified: 19 Mar 2006, 23:43:41 UTC

Server Status

Up, out of work
87 workunits in progress
45 concurrent connections


There must be people out there eating prozac like popcorn waiting for the magic flag to go up and signal that new work is ready to roll :D


sQuonk
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Intel Core i3-9100 CPU@3.60 GHz, but it's doing its bit just the same.
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Profile The Gas Giant

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Message 13074 - Posted: 20 Mar 2006, 2:06:57 UTC - in response to Message 13065.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2006, 2:08:08 UTC

Maybe its just a case of sour grapes but after no work for almost a month I think that it is justified.


Has it been a month? Surely not! It feels like just over a week ago I returned my last wu's.

Live long and crunch.

Paul
(S@H1 8888)
BOINC/SAH BETA
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River~~

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Message 13076 - Posted: 20 Mar 2006, 8:57:01 UTC - in response to Message 13065.  

Maybe its just a case of sour grapes but after no work for almost a month I think that it is justified....
... I feel that my efforts and resources could be better used by other projects. This is not something that I want to do as a like the LHC project.

I'll wait and see what happens this week before making a final decision on wheather I remain donating resources to this project.


The 100% workload of this project is over permanently.

This project will continue to offer work intermittently for (at my guess) the next year or so, then (again at my guess) offer work even less frequently. Even if my longer term guesses are wrong, for the next few months intermittent work is what we will be getting here.

There is no rule that says a BOINC project must offer work 24/365. People have come to expect that because until LHC all projects have in fact done so. This is the first of a new breed of projects that (at my guess) will become more and more common in future - projects needing a high level of resource in short bursts.

There is no rule that says that participants have to like continuous work, nor any rule that says participants have to like intermittent work. Your taste may vary and that is fine. There is a rule of common sense that says you volunteer where what is on offer suits your own taste. Where the science you like most is offered on a schedule you don't like so much, only you can know whether the schedule or the science is more important to you.

Finally, I'd point out that LHC has enough crunchers. Many other projects -- and Rosetta in particular -- are desperate for more cpu time, LHC is not. All the more reason why at present LHC only needs to keep those on board who are happy with the set-up here.

You clearly have a lot to contribute: I really appreciate that. You deserve to make your contribution where you get most out of it in terms of your own satisfaction. Sounds to me like your half-formed plans to go elsewhere are the better choice for your tastes.
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River~~

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Message 13077 - Posted: 20 Mar 2006, 9:08:57 UTC - in response to Message 13065.  


Sadly it appears that this is like any other volunteer organisation in its hurry up and wait attitude. The project asked for all its participants and now they don't know what to do with them.


Er no.

Firstly:

This project never asked for more than 8000 volunteers - for a long time it was capped at 1000. It was through repeated requests from volunteers and would-be volunteers that the limits were removed.

Secondly:

This project has already completed its primary mission, and the workload is therefore reduced. If the beam physicists had not been thinking up further innovative applications for the computing resource we donate, there would have been no more work since ~Sept 2005 and the project would have closed.

This new work is important and useful, but does not need the volume of volunteers that the project now has. Therefore what work there is does not last very long.

Thirdly:

I do not remember this project ever saying "hurry up". Some participants say this (like when their work is stuck in a pending queue we will hear gripes that some other cruncher is taking too long) but I have never seen that coming from the project team.

Fourthly:

The point of volunteering is to do something that is useful to the other party - to the project in the case of DC. What is currently useful, and what will continue to be so for the foreseeable future, is for us to do bursts of work, and for us to sit back (or let our boxes crunch other projects) while the physicists ponder the latest results. If that is not what you want to offer, no problem, but don't expect the project to change on your account, especially when there arte other people (see most of the posts on this thread) who *are* happy to contribute under the current timetable.

R~~
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River~~

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Message 13078 - Posted: 20 Mar 2006, 9:15:44 UTC - in response to Message 13073.  

Server Status

Up, out of work
87 workunits in progress
45 concurrent connections


There must be people out there eating prozac like popcorn waiting for the magic flag to go up and signal that new work is ready to roll :D



Maybe there are some sad folks doing just that.

However it seems more sensible to me to let my boxes eat Einstein/Rosetta like popcorn while waiting for the next round of LHC work.

R~~
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Gumper Mcgee

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Message 13083 - Posted: 20 Mar 2006, 20:18:33 UTC


maybe the guys at CERN can write an app. that will help us understand the
intricate nuances of a VOLUNTEER program where people DONATE their CPU
time to help crunch numbers for scientific projects. That should keep
the whiners pacified for a while.
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Profile [B^S] Molzahn

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Message 13084 - Posted: 20 Mar 2006, 23:39:36 UTC - in response to Message 13083.  

maybe the guys at CERN can write an app. that will help us understand the
intricate nuances of a VOLUNTEER program where people DONATE their CPU
time to help crunch numbers for scientific projects. That should keep
the whiners pacified for a while.


While i may have some (slight) enmity for throke after his posts on my website, and i may feel his post was unnecessarily sarcastic, I do agree with the gist of it and the posts that preceded this one.

If you don't wish to crunch for LHC anymore, no love lost. I am sure you will feel happier at another project with constant work. It will leave more WU's for those of us dedicated to the project to crunch.

Thank you for the time you spent crunching here,

-Mike

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Profile Ben Segal
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Message 13091 - Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 15:16:02 UTC - in response to Message 13072.  

It is my understanding that they are evaluating the results of the last lot of work we did so they can develop the next study. I tend to suspend LHC@home when there is no work and just check this site regularly and reactivate once work appears rather than have my system trying to call for new work all the time. My CPU is crunching either Predictor or Fighting Aids as I write. I am really pleased to think that I have made a contribution, no matter how small, to the development of the LHC.


Thanks, Chaz, for your helpful and correct advice: that is indeed the situation.

Thanks also to all other helpful correspondents (like Mike Molzahn, River, etc) for re-explaining patiently to some other crunchers that the project is just pausing for some analysis before submitting new work.

Ben Segal / LHC@home
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m.mitch

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Message 13093 - Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 16:50:04 UTC - in response to Message 13076.  

Maybe its just a case of sour grapes but after no work for almost a month I think that it is justified....
... I feel that my efforts and resources could be better used by other projects. This is not something that I want to do as a like the LHC project.

I'll wait and see what happens this week before making a final decision on wheather I remain donating resources to this project.


The 100% workload of this project is over permanently.

This project will continue to offer work intermittently for (at my guess) the next year or so, then (again at my guess) offer work even less frequently. Even if my longer term guesses are wrong, for the next few months intermittent work is what we will be getting here.

There is no rule that says a BOINC project must offer work 24/365. People have come to expect that because until LHC all projects have in fact done so. This is the first of a new breed of projects that (at my guess) will become more and more common in future - projects needing a high level of resource in short bursts.

There is no rule that says that participants have to like continuous work, nor any rule that says participants have to like intermittent work. Your taste may vary and that is fine. There is a rule of common sense that says you volunteer where what is on offer suits your own taste. Where the science you like most is offered on a schedule you don't like so much, only you can know whether the schedule or the science is more important to you.

Finally, I'd point out that LHC has enough crunchers. Many other projects -- and Rosetta in particular -- are desperate for more cpu time, LHC is not. All the more reason why at present LHC only needs to keep those on board who are happy with the set-up here.

You clearly have a lot to contribute: I really appreciate that. You deserve to make your contribution where you get most out of it in terms of your own satisfaction. Sounds to me like your half-formed plans to go elsewhere are the better choice for your tastes.


Gotta love the moral support, patients and understanding you give users here, River!



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m.mitch

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Message 13094 - Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 16:53:38 UTC

What happened to the "Refer to moderator button" on this board? ROTFLOFL ;-)




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Andreas

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Message 13105 - Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 12:17:37 UTC

I completely agree with River, everyone's completely free to run other projects to keep their computer(s) occupied. I myself is currently participating in six BOINC projects (incl. LHC), so I'm never out of work.
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m.mitch

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Message 13109 - Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 15:55:07 UTC
Last modified: 22 Mar 2006, 15:55:34 UTC

8-D 8-D 8-D 8-D 8-D 8-D 8-D 8-D 8-D

Hey River - Right back at you!

And I didn't do the first one!!
That really took my fancy, still smiling 8-)



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m.mitch

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Message 13110 - Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 15:58:50 UTC - in response to Message 13091.  
Last modified: 22 Mar 2006, 16:11:17 UTC

If someone is having a bad day, a little patience goes a long way. I wish some people could wait a bit before posting.

Or at least edit the post as I have done here :-( A conciliatory attitude goes a long way. I think Peter is now crunching on another project and he does contribute to a number of others.

Oh well, one person's loss is another persons gain.





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KWSN-GMC-Peeper of the Castle ...
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Message 13111 - Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 18:51:17 UTC

I'm happy. Running 3 projects and I always have work. What irritates me the most about LHC is not the project but some of the users. Those last 2000 work units that take 2 weeks to clear because of the people running 9 projects on their single machine with the cache set to maximum. Shame on you. :-P



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