Message boards : Number crunching : Would this be a good computer for Numbers?
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Craig Engbrecht

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Message 12764 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 11:07:44 UTC

Part Model Qty Unit Price Ext. Price
Processor : AMD Athlon 64 3700+ w/ 1MB Cache (Retail Box) 1
$259.95

$259.95
CPU Heatsink / Fan : Asus Star Ice CPU Cooler 1
$69.95

$69.95
Thermal Compound : Arctic Silver Ceramique Premium High-Density Thermal Compund, 22g 1
$29.99

$29.99
Motherboards : Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe w/ DualDDR400, 7.1 Audio, Dual GB Lan, Dual PCI-E x16 SLI, Cool-Pipe 1
$234.95

$234.95
Memory : Kingston 1GB PC3200 ECC Registered, Dual Rank x8 1
$159.95

$159.95
Case : Antec P180 Advanced Super Mid Tower 1
$159.95

$159.95
Power Supplies : Antec TruePower 2.0 550W 1
$129.95

$129.95
Floppy / Card Reader : Panasonic 1.44MB Floppy Drive 1
$14.95

$14.95
Hard Drives 1 : Maxtor 250GB DiamondMax 10 7200RPM SATAII w/ 16MB Cache (ROHS) 1
$124.95

$124.95
Hard Drives 2 : None 0
$0.00

$0.00
Optical Drive 1 : None 0
$0.00

$0.00
Optical Drive 2 : None 0
$0.00

$0.00
Video Cards : Asus Extreme AX550 Gamer Edition 256MB PCI-E w/ TV-Out, DVI 1
$99.95

$99.95
Monitors : BenQ FP71G+ 17in LCD, 8ms, Black 1
$274.95

$274.95
Sound Cards : Onboard 8-Channel 7.1 Audio 1
$0.00

$0.00
Ethernet Cards : Onboard Dual 100/1000 Gigabit Lan 1
$0.00

$0.00
Operating System : Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition (OEM) 1
$154.95

$154.95
Assembly : Please Assemble Hardware + Load my O/S 1
$60.00

$60.00
Warranty : Memory Express 1 Year Parts and Labour Warranty 1
$0.00

$0.00
Comments:



Email Quote
Sub-Total:
$1774.44
GST:
$124.21
Total Cost:
$1898.65
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Christian B.

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Message 12765 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 11:48:54 UTC

I'm not quite sure if BOINC will run without problems on Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition. Tried one x64 edition here at work, but not all my 32-bit programs could run on that machine. Haven't tried BOINC, but I suggest you ask someone who did, before you install that windows.

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Profile Santas little helper

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Message 12766 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 14:08:38 UTC - in response to Message 12764.  

Part Model Qty Unit Price Ext. Price
Processor : AMD Athlon 64 3700+ w/ 1MB Cache (Retail Box) 1
$259.95


Why a single core processor for number crunching? ... I think about an AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+ or better ...
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Message 12767 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 17:27:48 UTC - in response to Message 12766.  
Last modified: 17 Feb 2006, 17:52:30 UTC

Considering only Mainstream components are to be used, very expensive buy.
One can build a better performing cruncher for half the price.

e.g. :
- Deluxe Mainboard is extremely expensive (SLI/Xfire ready), yet only a low-end 99$ Video card is planned and all of its deluxe components are not needed or used.
Since it's going to be a cruncher, go for a much cheaper KT880pro AGP Board. Same crunching performance, 1/3 the cost.

- use a generic 2nd hand 2D PCI Video Card (1$ EBay) instead. A modern AGP or even PCIe-Card is just a waste of money and especially energy on a Cruncher Box, since it won't ever be used or needed. An S3 Virge, ATI Rage or alike is more than sufficient, consumes almost nil power, produces almost zero heat. Those cards are loved in the server world for these reasons and they barely ever fail.

- Monitor : unneeded, remote login via Network instead

- CPU Cooler and massive amount of thermal paste are unneeded, an AMD Boxed CPU doesn't require any such extras.

- CPU : in your targetted performance region, Santas little helper is correct. Go for an Athlon64 X2 3800+ instead. Barely more expensive than the Athlon64 3700+ and yields much higher performance.

- ECC Reg. RAM is extremely expensive, normal DDR RAM is sufficient and yields higher performance. (no need for premium CL2.0-2-2, the Athlon64 CPU's perform just as fine on value CL2.5-3-3 RAM at much less cost)

- 550W Power Supply is extremely expensive and could power three of the boxes you're planning, a cheap LC Power 350W is already overkill and 1/3 the price.
(expect your cruncher to consume peak 90 to 100W at best, ~140W peak if you're using your original config)

- Tower is quite expensive, pure crunchers feel well in 80$ cases just as fine (just depends on your taste)

- 250GB HD is overkill for a cruncher, any generic 80GB will do (and 75GB won't ever be used on it)

- Floppy is optional (Installs and Diagnose Software usually run from bootable CD/DVD)

- OS : use Linux instead, more flexibility, options and reliability, zero Cost (32 or 64bit at your free choice).

- Installation/Assembly : do it yourself

-------------------------------
Overall : for ~1900$ and using my standards, I can pretty much build two complete and crunch-ready Athlon64 X2 4400+ Systems.
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David Stites
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Message 12768 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 18:41:42 UTC

Just so you know, BOINC runs fine under XP x64. I have a 3800+ x2 with XP x64. I don't have drivers for my printer but it crunches BOINC very well.

Have fun,

--
David Stites
Mount Vernon, WA USA
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Profile Magic Quantum Mechanic
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Message 12769 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 20:55:44 UTC
Last modified: 17 Feb 2006, 21:07:10 UTC



You can run BOINC with no problem using an AMD 64

I have been running this 3200+ since the beginning.

I also plan on updating to a dual 4800+ asap.

You can get versions such as a 3200+ 3800+ much cheaper and they also sell anything else you can ever need (no I don't work there )

And they ship fast and you can get any version you want.

Tigerdirect


***************************************************************************
I just took a look and this is a good deal for the 3800+ dual 64
All I would add is another 512 ram and they do that (and anything else)

Systemax 3800+ Dual


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River~~

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Message 12770 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 22:40:22 UTC
Last modified: 17 Feb 2006, 23:02:24 UTC

If you are wanting to boost your BOINC, do consider another angle as well.

The best 'boinc for buck' ratios are obtained by buying second hand machines, and lots of them.

I got 10 machines for a few hundred pounds total, aggregate crunch power 13 GHz. Between them they give about the same throughput as 2 x 2.8GHz boxes with HT processors, but at a much lower initial cost.

Anything down to 500MHz is usable, I tend to go for 500 - 800 MHz as being the best crunch value. SEcond hand twin cpu servers, eg this twin 665MHz box, are particularly good value when they turn up - this one cost UKĀ£55, well under US$100 from a computer salvage merchant. 15 to 25 of these would easily outperform your box and for around the same cost.

Of course this suggestion is no good if you also want to run the latest fastest games...


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The Pirate

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Message 12771 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 22:45:25 UTC

I'm running BOINC on a pc with 2x275 Opterons (4 cpu's)on XP64 and it runs just fine.

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Message 12772 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 23:50:15 UTC - in response to Message 12771.  
Last modified: 17 Feb 2006, 23:50:35 UTC

@River

IMHO, Electricity must be dirt cheap to sum up the power of e.g. 3-4 modern machines with e.g. 10-15 old machines. Otherwise, the power bill will eat your soul alive *g* (I know mine does ;) )
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Craig Engbrecht

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Message 12774 - Posted: 18 Feb 2006, 10:38:41 UTC

One guy out of you all... lol, thats cool...

I am not only getting it for Numbers but for gaming too...

Thanks for all the info... I know I could make it cheaper but I trust the parts these guys get and they also offer Really sweet warrentys... I am a Computer gamer/Nerd/Security Guard, so money isnt that bad, but I am not home much so when I want to game I want to really game, and when I am not using it someone should...

Though thanks for all the info guys, and if any, Girls.

Bye for now and have a good day.
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River~~

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Message 12775 - Posted: 18 Feb 2006, 11:31:39 UTC - in response to Message 12772.  
Last modified: 18 Feb 2006, 11:34:26 UTC

@River

IMHO, Electricity must be dirt cheap to sum up the power of e.g. 3-4 modern machines with e.g. 10-15 old machines. Otherwise, the power bill will eat your soul alive *g* (I know mine does ;) )


In summer this is true, and I may well turn off some of my farm - Or suffer as you mention in your profile ;-)

In winter all the electricity gets pumped out the back of the boxes as heat, and so offsets my heating bills -- in fact it all but replaces them. I have only had the heat on in my lounge about four times this winter - on all but the coldest days the boxes keep the lounge comfy.

Heating one room with electricity works out cheaper than running the gas-fired central heating, where to heat one room I have to fire up the boiler and the entire radiator circuit even if I turn off the other radiators. If I had a family filling all the rooms in my flat the sums would work out differently...

River~~
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Craig Engbrecht

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Message 12784 - Posted: 19 Feb 2006, 11:19:28 UTC
Last modified: 19 Feb 2006, 11:25:11 UTC

How does this look, Keep in mind its a gaming computer as well, and I am eventualy upgrading the video card... Right now I have a Radeon 9100 IGP Pro... so this is still better than what I have...

Part Model

Processor : AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ w/ 2x512K Cache 1

$359.95

CPU Heatsink / Fan : AMD Retail Heatsink and Fan 1

Motherboards : AAsus A8N-SLI Premium w/ DualDDR400, 7.1 Audio, Dual GB Lan, 2 x PCI-E x16 SLI, Cool-Pipe 1
$209.95

Memory : Kingston 512MB PC2700 DDR X 2

$109.90

Case : Antec P180 Advanced Super Mid Tower 1

$159.95

Power Supplies : Antec TruePower 2.0 380W 1

$74.95

Floppy / Card Reader : Panasonic 1.44MB Floppy Drive 1

$14.95

Hard Drives 1 : Maxtor 250GB DiamondMax 10 7200RPM SATAII w/ 16MB Cache (ROHS) 1

$124.95

Video Cards : Asus Extreme AX550 Gamer Edition 256MB PCI-E w/ TV-Out, DVI 1

$99.95

Monitors : BenQ FP71G+ 17in LCD, 8ms, Black 1

$274.95

Sound Cards : Onboard 8-Channel 7.1 Audio 1

Ethernet Cards : Onboard Dual 100/1000 Gigabit Lan 1

Operating System : Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition (OEM) 1

$154.95

Assembly : Please Assemble Hardware + Load my O/S 1

$60.00

Warranty : Memory Express 1 Year Parts and Labour Warranty 1


Sub-Total:
$1644.45
GST:
$115.11
Total Cost:
$1759.56
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Message 12787 - Posted: 19 Feb 2006, 21:53:28 UTC - in response to Message 12784.  
Last modified: 19 Feb 2006, 21:56:07 UTC

Hm, since it's going to be primarily a Gaming rig, it looks alot better in that light now :)

You'll find avid discussions about the use of lower clocked Dual Core vs. faster clocked Single Core CPU's around Hardware/Gaming forums.
Currently, the Single Core CPU's are still in lead, but certainly Graphics Drivers and most recently a few Games began to use the 2nd Core as well, so the future is sure with Dual/Multi-Core CPU's.

I'd go for that Motherboard only if you sure want to use an NVidia SLI Graphics solution, as ATI Crossfire (as of now) will not officially operate on NVidia Chipsets.
If SLI is not to be used, you can save some bucks on a cheaper non-SLI Board.

The 380W Power Supply is more adequate now (compared to the previous 550W monster), although if an SLI setup is actually planned, such a hughe power supply might actually be in order (depending on the cards planned in future).
Still, that can be upgraded when the time comes of course.

Overall :
Considering the price and power of the other Hardware, the X550 is really underpowered (X550 : only 4 Pixel Pipelines, 500MHz Core / 250MHz Mem with only 128bit)
But since it's already planned to be upgraded, of course better than the IGP 9100 ;)

Nonetheless, an expensive System... other System builders might give more bang for the buck...
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Craig Engbrecht

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Message 12790 - Posted: 20 Feb 2006, 1:25:53 UTC

@ FalconFly,

So could you set me up a system, with just names like the ones below, so that I can read u pon it a learn why and where you got the stuff, cause I am new to allocating but Have built my own systems before... though they were on p133 cpus and stuff... So I may be a bit rusty...

Anyway thanks for all the great info, and I hope that all goes well with LHC.

I am still ready to chugg as soon as more modules are released...
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Message 12805 - Posted: 20 Feb 2006, 21:48:24 UTC - in response to Message 12784.  

Memory : Kingston 512MB PC2700 DDR X 2

Why only PC2700 Ram? You could go for PC3200 and use its full potential. It would also speed up your system and (at least in Finland) it would be even cheaper.
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Craig Engbrecht

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Message 12807 - Posted: 21 Feb 2006, 1:25:31 UTC

How bout this cause its cheaper through my source...

Mushkin SP3200 Green Series DDR SDRAM, 512MB @ 42.95 x2
I cant afford the Kingston PC3200 ram, its 84 vs the 2700 at 54

I am on a bit of a budget...
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Osku87

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Message 12816 - Posted: 21 Feb 2006, 20:33:47 UTC - in response to Message 12807.  
Last modified: 21 Feb 2006, 20:34:54 UTC

Mushkin is a very famous of its overcolockers memory. One of the best memory manufacturers in the world. I don't know anything about that Green series, but if it's as good as Mushkins more expensive memory I would buy it straight away.

Memory markets have changed since christmas I see. Here in Finland Kingston Value Ram PC2700 costs 45,90e and PC3200 49,90e. On christmas it was reverse.

I would buy those Mushkins, but lets see what others think about this.

Edit: Message board didn't like my mighty euro characters.
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Message 12851 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006, 21:09:07 UTC - in response to Message 12790.  
Last modified: 23 Feb 2006, 21:11:06 UTC

@ FalconFly,

So could you set me up a system, with just names like the ones below, so that I can read u pon it a learn why and where you got the stuff, cause I am new to allocating but Have built my own systems before... though they were on p133 cpus and stuff... So I may be a bit rusty...

Anyway thanks for all the great info, and I hope that all goes well with LHC.

I am still ready to chugg as soon as more modules are released...


Not sure if I understand correctly.
It sure depends on which country you live in, in some the Hardware is indeed much more expensive than in others.
Just check www.newegg.com for example (which is quite famous in the US), depending on the amount of tax you have to pay you might save quite a few bucks.

btw., I just noted that you listed Kingston 512MB PC2700 DDR X 2 as your choice of RAM. Make sure it's PC3200, otherwise you're giving away performance.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Would this be a good computer for Numbers?


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