Message boards : Number crunching : Resource change during project lack of work
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Trulayne
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Message 9576 - Posted: 23 Aug 2005, 0:38:48 UTC
Last modified: 23 Aug 2005, 1:27:17 UTC

With BOINC when a project does not have work, the allocation from that project is equally split over the other projects. For many people this may be fine. In my case, I use much higher allocations for LHC and Einstein. My other projects get a fair share but not high like LHC and Einstein. Now that LHC is not giving WUs, LHC's share is given to all my projects equally. To counter this, I change venues for my computers. To some degree this works except for my slower computers because I also run Climate Prediction which takes a long time and requires a higher allocation for the slower computers.

What I would like to see incorporated into BOINC is a way to decide which projects get the allocation from the project which is not getting WUs. This could be a tab where one could check which project get the share. Across the board dividing up of the share could be the default. If any of the checked projects are also out of work, the others that are check do the dividing. If all of the checked projects have no work, the the default of across the board is used.

Any thoughts pro or con are welcomed.


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Profile Doug Worrall

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Message 9577 - Posted: 23 Aug 2005, 0:49:50 UTC

Hello Trulane,
I am with team Synergy also as Sluger1138.Using Linux O.s System now.

I agree with what u are saying .Is in not possible seeing as LHC has no work

for 5 days now.To "Suspend" so you do not keep gettimg "Failure" notices

in the tab.If that is wrong,I may not be back here for a while.Could you

please leave a "Personal" Mail ion my Inbox at Synergy that you have "Posted"

regarding this Matter.I do hope your Ideas come to Fruition Trulane.

Sincerely
Sluger1138

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lmscs

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Message 9591 - Posted: 23 Aug 2005, 18:14:56 UTC

Thanks Trulayne, for answering a question I was having! How BOINC shares the resource from a project with no work (I expected as much!).

I agree with you completely, it would be a very useful feature indeed from my point of view. Let’s just hope someone is reading this…

Regarding what Doug wrote, I don’t think that’s the way to go because if in the meanwhile LHC does have work and if your project is suspended, you won’t know about it!!! Correct me if I’m wrong.

Thanks
LMSCS

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Betting Slip

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Message 9599 - Posted: 23 Aug 2005, 20:50:45 UTC - in response to Message 9576.  

I wish they would build a subroutine into BOINC that would decide what I had for breakfast when my first choice wasn't available! LOL
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Message 9600 - Posted: 23 Aug 2005, 21:05:33 UTC

:-)


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Travis DJ

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Message 9603 - Posted: 23 Aug 2005, 22:13:08 UTC - in response to Message 9576.  
Last modified: 23 Aug 2005, 22:15:24 UTC

<blockquote>What I would like to see incorporated into BOINC is a way to decide which projects get the allocation from the project which is not getting WUs.
</blockquote>

If I'm not mistaken, that's BOINC 4.4x+'s default behavior to do just what you said. If one project is offline and you've assigned 50% of your time to it and 25% between the other two active clients, BOINC Manager won't let that time go to waste. In this case it'll devote the time amongst the remaining project (i.e. 25/25 becomes 50/50). The long term debt on any remaining projects will be worked out if there is any the Manager has to do so. BOINC Manager will continuously check the status of the "out of work" server and then fetch work when it's available.

That's the whole reason the client scheduler has been changed in recent versions including the introduction of long term debt to ensure all projects get their minimum amount of time necessary to complete workunits before the expiration date, in accordance with resource shares. Believe me it took a while to appreciate this change and client behavior but it works properly given time for the client to adjust to your PC and the way you use it.

Besides, while you are out of work because you suspended the project, my client downloaded 23 workunits in the last 6 hours. You really should never suspend a project just because it's out of work.

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John McLeod VII
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Message 9606 - Posted: 24 Aug 2005, 1:40:45 UTC

If you have your projects set up with shares of 90/9/1, and the project with a resource share of 90 runs out, the the time will be split 9/1 between the other two. (Similar holds for all values of resource shares).


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Trulayne
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Message 9672 - Posted: 26 Aug 2005, 21:16:58 UTC

Well, I followed the idea that while there was no new work for LHC that the LTD would take care of the balance between projects in the long run. I do not see any change in LTD for LHC now that I have some work again. One computer had a negative LTD when it's last WU finished and still has a negative LTD as it is about to start crunching a WU.
So what I gather is that a shift in resources from the project to another of my designation during project WU outages would keep the balance in allocation percentages between "pet projects" and the "others". By letting things "ride as is" gives a greater percentage of allocations to the "others" beyond what I want.
If LTD is to acrue during "no work" periods, then it does not work as advertised.


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Travis DJ

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Message 9681 - Posted: 27 Aug 2005, 17:24:19 UTC - in response to Message 9672.  
Last modified: 27 Aug 2005, 17:30:40 UTC

IIRC, a negative debt means "Give me more work! I need more! More! MOre! MORE!" It's possible to accrue negative debt in relation to other projects share %. It'll make that project (in your case LHC) do more LHC WUs until that debt is near zero.
<blockquote>So what I gather is that a shift in resources from the project to another of my designation during project WU outages would keep the balance in allocation percentages between "pet projects" and the "others". By letting things "ride as is" gives a greater percentage of allocations to the "others" beyond what I want.</blockquote>
The default behavior of BOINC is to treat your resource shares by the % you've assigned to the project. If you have shares 9/21/10/70 and the project that is "70" is out of work then BOINC client treats your shares as 9/21/10 and the amount of time being split is increased to proportion. You seem to be wanting a way to specify a "if work goes out" resource share - a backup setting, so to speak. This would require a fundamental change in how BOINC does resource sharing on both the client and server (read: every BOINC server would have to update their code to be compatible with your change because the project server sets the resource share in addition to updating every BOINC client who would need to understand the change on the server).

I'm not sure I understand why it's a big deal in any case. As soon as the project that is out of work sends your client work again your shares return to the way they were before it went out of work. Most projects presently work on scientific research, so in the end you're donating CPU time to better mankind's understanding of the universe anyway :). If you're unhappy with the way it works when you're out of work try adjusting your shares by an order of a thousand or so so you can fine-tune the way the other projects get time when one is out (2/3/5/90 -> 2000/3000/5000/90000). Good luck.

Happy Crunching!
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John McLeod VII
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Message 9682 - Posted: 27 Aug 2005, 19:35:05 UTC - in response to Message 9681.  

<blockquote>IIRC, a negative debt means "Give me more work! I need more! More! MOre! MORE!" It's possible to accrue negative debt in relation to other projects share %. It'll make that project (in your case LHC) do more LHC WUs until that debt is near zero.
</blockquote>
Actually you have that backwards. A negative debt means that the project has gotten more than its share. A positive debt means that the project needs more work on the host.



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John McLeod VII
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Message 9683 - Posted: 27 Aug 2005, 19:37:20 UTC - in response to Message 9672.  

<blockquote>Well, I followed the idea that while there was no new work for LHC that the LTD would take care of the balance between projects in the long run. I do not see any change in LTD for LHC now that I have some work again. One computer had a negative LTD when it's last WU finished and still has a negative LTD as it is about to start crunching a WU.
So what I gather is that a shift in resources from the project to another of my designation during project WU outages would keep the balance in allocation percentages between "pet projects" and the "others". By letting things "ride as is" gives a greater percentage of allocations to the "others" beyond what I want.
If LTD is to acrue during "no work" periods, then it does not work as advertised.

</blockquote>
There was a change of policy dictated by projects that did not have work for extremely long periods of time. These would drive the host into a mode where each project would download a WU, and crunch it, then some other project would do the same. This was alleviated to some extent by not accruing LT debt when a project was in communications deferral.


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Message 9692 - Posted: 28 Aug 2005, 8:27:50 UTC - in response to Message 9682.  
Last modified: 28 Aug 2005, 8:32:08 UTC

<blockquote>Actually you have that backwards. A negative debt means that the project has gotten more than its share. A positive debt means that the project needs more work on the host.</blockquote>I knew it! LOL.. when I saw the term "negative debt" I figured as in algebra, two negatives make a positive.. so negative (meaning taking away from) and debt (as in something owed) meant something else.. sort of like the BOINC term "result" for an issue of a WU .. but it's not truly a result until the result has been cruchned. Oy! It's giving me schpillkiss in my galacticazoink! Quick get me some water I'm veclumped!
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Message 9709 - Posted: 29 Aug 2005, 20:45:30 UTC - in response to Message 9692.  
Last modified: 29 Aug 2005, 20:45:40 UTC

<blockquote>Oy! It's giving me schpillkiss in my galacticazoink! Quick get me some water I'm veclumped!</blockquote>
Here you have your glass of water... Feeling better now? ;))
------------------------
Greetings from Cori
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Travis DJ

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Message 9742 - Posted: 31 Aug 2005, 2:00:12 UTC - in response to Message 9709.  

<blockquote>Here you have your glass of water... Feeling better now? ;))</blockquote>Is this sparkling or still? :)
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Message 9908 - Posted: 4 Sep 2005, 2:52:35 UTC - in response to Message 9742.  
Last modified: 4 Sep 2005, 3:04:43 UTC

<blockquote>Is this sparkling or still? :)</blockquote>

no sparkling, to avoid belching ;-) hehe
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Greetings from Cori
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Message boards : Number crunching : Resource change during project lack of work


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