Message boards : Number crunching : sugestion for downloading BOINC from LHC website
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Profile Ed and Harriet Griffith
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Message 8272 - Posted: 2 Jul 2005, 13:41:48 UTC

Why not refer to the same page as SETI which develops BOINC? That way you will always have the latest version and not have to mess with it. Predictor and Einstein already do this. If there is a problem then the sooner it is known the better. In any case, many of your users will automatically go with the recommended or even experimental version regardless of what you have on your website. Those who want to stay with older versions may do so, of course. The danger is once you open up to many new users you don't want them to wonder if they need to stay with an old BOINC version. Right now your website only lists BOINC 4.19 even though the elsewhere recommended BOINC 4.45 works fine. If your BOINC download page is the seti download page then that won't happen and you never have to worry about updating it.

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Profile Markku Degerholm

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Message 8276 - Posted: 2 Jul 2005, 14:18:01 UTC - in response to Message 8272.  

Yes, there's a point in what you say. We have considered that. However, SETI usually updates their server and client side much more often than we update our server side, thus resulting in possible incompability between the new client and old server.

Maybe we could add a link to SETI download page. But at least we will update our client distribution soon.


Markku Degerholm
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John McLeod VII
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Message 8294 - Posted: 4 Jul 2005, 1:37:46 UTC

You should consider new server software shortly. BOINC is going to 5.00 for the client version, and older versions of the server will not contact the 5.00 clients. I would wait until they shake a few of the bugs out before doing this however.


BOINC WIKI
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Profile Keck_Komputers

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Message 8295 - Posted: 4 Jul 2005, 2:54:37 UTC - in response to Message 8276.  

> Maybe we could add a link to SETI download page. But at least we will update
> our client distribution soon.

I've always thought this was the way to go. Have the local links for downloading with a 'you can also download from here' link.
BOINC WIKI

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Profile irzyxel

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Message 8296 - Posted: 4 Jul 2005, 10:43:19 UTC

umm, but wasnt the idea of boinc to have 1 client which runs multiple projects ?
and NOT to worry about what version is compatible with what project so i might not be able to run this or that ???

i think the boinc guys are doing a horrible job right now ... messed up version numbers, no change files, silly stupid bugs that shouldnt even have passed the most simple quality testings

neither of their latest stable and dev are working half-way correctly.
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 8299 - Posted: 4 Jul 2005, 13:40:57 UTC

That is the plan, one client, multiple projects. But there are times when you have to move on. We had a similar issue when we went from the 3.x to the 4.x versions. To participate in the most projects I had to upgrade to 4.x, but Predictor@Home did not want to expend the effort AT THAT TIME to migrate. Plus the expiriment they were in the middle of was almost done.

So, I had to drop PPAH and wait till they upgraded.

At the moment, I see the problem is actually that they have been so permissive on the minimum level of client. THere are people still running versions earlier than 4.19 ... and to be honest, though some of the 4.4x versions have been, um, troubled, I have been running several of them and actually see little difference in overall behavior. And I have almost all my computers moved over to 4.45 ...

As a matter of fact, I am a little browned off that I can't run 4.45 on my Mac ... :(
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tannengruen
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Message 8300 - Posted: 4 Jul 2005, 14:51:17 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jul 2005, 15:07:27 UTC

There's one big feature still missing in the new BOINC installers: The ability to update an existing installation!
I tried to update my v4.19 with the new v4.45, but the installer refused to work telling me I have to uninstall any prior versions before. :-(
This is quite worse, because at least one workunit (or as many as your client has donwloaded for processing) is lost!
Has anyone yet thought about this at LHC?
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ric

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Message 8301 - Posted: 4 Jul 2005, 16:20:33 UTC - in response to Message 8300.  

> There's one big feature still missing in the new BOINC installers: The ability
> to update an existing installation!
> I tried to update my v4.19 with the new v4.45, but the installer refused to
> work telling me I have to uninstall any prior versions before. :-(
> This is quite worse, because at least one workunit (or as many as your client
> has donwloaded for processing) is lost!
> Has anyone yet thought about this at LHC?
>

It's there. it's there.
First deinstall the boinc client, the work and the major XML files are kept.

Then install the more recent boinc client, the work is still there, the client is doing it's benchmark and will continue with the work without lost. This can be done in middle of a processing work.


It took a while until the client was "able" to do this, but since several boinc client releases, this is solved.

Just be sure to install it to the same directory.

BTW the well known acrobat reader had the same problem, ealier versions didn't
deinstall the already installed version, it has to be done by customer.

Perhaps wrong, but the project (LHC) should just be able to USE the client, not to figure out what release is working "propper".

At least that's the theory behind a level oriented programming;)

Boinc client and the project application should be seperated...
good luck!

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tannengruen
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Message 8302 - Posted: 4 Jul 2005, 16:27:24 UTC

OK, thanks, I got it meanwhile.
But IMO there should be at least a notification that de-installing the client does NOT destroy one's settings/WUs etc. Even on the BOINC-home page there is no info about how-to upgrade an existing installation...
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 8303 - Posted: 4 Jul 2005, 18:33:40 UTC

Yes, well, I have a How-To now ... look in the Wiki ...

As far as installs go, the 4.19 to the 4.2x I think it was, you have to uninstall the old one and then install the new one. But, for the most part the installs have been just write over the top of the old one ...

Safety says make a back-up of the BOINC Folder, just in case ...

As far as links go, yes, the linkage to documentation is worse than I keep hoping, but, there are more than just me now working on the documentation. I still do the most as I have the most time to spend. But, the others look at what I am doing, review the content and correct as needed.

So far, I am very pleased with our progress, and with more "eyes" able to fix the little things that they see is wonderful ... so, we wander about and look for things to improve. Once I get the content moved over from the old site and am down to odd pages here and there... well ... I will start to make part of my day to review odd pages ... and pages that have high hit counts and those with low hit counts to see if there is a need for improvement.

But still, you folks are the best guides to what needs updating ... keep me on my toes ...
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John McLeod VII
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Message 8304 - Posted: 5 Jul 2005, 0:46:10 UTC - in response to Message 8303.  

> As far as installs go, the 4.19 to the 4.2x I think it was, you have to
> uninstall the old one and then install the new one. But, for the most part the
> installs have been just write over the top of the old one ...
It was the step from 4.19 to 4.20 that caused the problem. The installer was changed at this point, and the two installers were completely incompatible. If the old version and new version are both on the same side of this divide, the install will go without the need for an uninstall.


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tannengruen
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Message 8306 - Posted: 5 Jul 2005, 9:06:19 UTC - in response to Message 8304.  

> It was the step from 4.19 to 4.20 that caused the problem. The installer was
> changed at this point, and the two installers were completely incompatible.
> If the old version and new version are both on the same side of this divide,
> the install will go without the need for an uninstall.
Ah, thanks for that background information!
Unfortunately it's exactly that "version step" one may be concerned with here at LHC@home: from pre-4.20 to 4.45... So it wouldn't be a fault to add some information about how-to upgrade to 4.45 here on the local download-page, don't you agree?
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 8307 - Posted: 5 Jul 2005, 10:16:38 UTC - in response to Message 8306.  

> Unfortunately it's exactly that "version step" one may be concerned with here
> at LHC@home: from pre-4.20 to 4.45... So it wouldn't be a fault to add some
> information about how-to upgrade to 4.45 here on the local download-page,
> don't you agree?

Yes, well, we do have install instructions in various places, the trouble is sometimes getting people to read them ... :)
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tannengruen
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Message 8308 - Posted: 5 Jul 2005, 10:27:07 UTC - in response to Message 8307.  

> Yes, well, we do have install instructions in various places, the trouble is
> sometimes getting people to read them ... :)
Well, I'm talking about the local downloads page here at LHC@home.
The only links with further instructions I can find there is http://boinc.berkeley.edu/participate.php - The official BIONC pages.
But even there one don't find a single hint that one could run intro trouble trying to update from 4.19...
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 8310 - Posted: 5 Jul 2005, 12:11:30 UTC

In the old documentation site, I have a set, granted a little dated, but, it is there ... two ways to access via the Owner's Manual or by the link on the main index page.
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Profile Jim Baize
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Message 8351 - Posted: 7 Jul 2005, 22:39:23 UTC - in response to Message 8300.  
Last modified: 7 Jul 2005, 22:44:27 UTC

That problem has been fixed after v4.19. I no longer have to uninstall previous versions prior to upgrading.

Jim

[edit: after posting this message, I saw that this issue had been discussed ad nauseum. Sorry. :( ]

> There's one big feature still missing in the new BOINC installers: The ability
> to update an existing installation!
> I tried to update my v4.19 with the new v4.45, but the installer refused to
> work telling me I have to uninstall any prior versions before. :-(
> This is quite worse, because at least one workunit (or as many as your client
> has donwloaded for processing) is lost!
> Has anyone yet thought about this at LHC?
>
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Profile Ed and Harriet Griffith
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Message 8353 - Posted: 8 Jul 2005, 10:47:11 UTC

Thanks! The download page now has BOINC 4.45 and a reference to the SETI download page for future versions. I think that will make your job easier. Thanks too for the new work!

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Message boards : Number crunching : sugestion for downloading BOINC from LHC website


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