Message boards : Number crunching : first bunch done... now what?
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 8063 - Posted: 13 Jun 2005, 13:44:21 UTC - in response to Message 8062.  

> only doing about 2300 Cobblestones a day ... I gotta do better than this! :)
> ==========
> The main reason you are only doing about 2300 a day is because the LHC
> Project gives out less credit than some of the other Projects do for the same
> amount of crunching time ...
>
> I'm the same way, I can only get between 2300 to 2400 a day here at LHC but at
> Einstein or CPND and some of the other Projects I can get between 3500 - 4000
> a day ...

I have my resource shares set to 100 on all 5 projects. I also got my daily rate from BOINC View, and I am not sure how the developer set it up to catch that value. But it agrees pretty much with the number Willy gives me in the stats, so, it is close.

I have conflicted goals, maximum work done, and maintaining world position in the stats. I was just muttering as my SETI@Home position has fallen out of the top 1,000; though my position in the other projects is holding steady or rising slightly.

I really like my PowerMac and was thinking of getting the latest top of the line PowerMac; hoping earlier this year that it would be a dual dual-core at 2.5 Ghz or greater, what I got is an announcement that Apple is looking to go Intel.

If I look at the raw production numbers I should get another Dell Dual-Xeon at 3.4GHz which is my current top producer. Even if I stick to that clock speed for a couple years, I would be getting 4 Logical CPUs to replace older systems with only 2 Logical CPUs ... and in the case of my RAID server, if I replace that with a single disk with a back-up (using a single 400G with Backup to external Fire-Wire disks) I should be Ok with my other current problems...

Then, I can also think about putting in a faster MB/CPU combo in the one machine that has only a single threaded core ... maybe even try one of the AMD chips on special, though I think that the throughput on an INtel core is better even though the speed is worse ...
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ric

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Message 8064 - Posted: 13 Jun 2005, 21:45:56 UTC - in response to Message 8063.  
Last modified: 13 Jun 2005, 21:47:54 UTC

Paul you will run into a never ending story.

Not so long ago, you proudly talked about the new G5 dual youl will get.

Now, just some week later, you are thinking to expand your farm.

With the more and more people joining the one or the other project, so far new accounting is available;) as more there are some other having more more PC MAC or (arrays) of nix.

It's (unfortunately) an illusion, to keep the penthouse or any kind of position over time. We all are passing this sad evidence.

Look at the people some years ago, they spend a lot of money to have recent (and quick) cruncher, just the mainboard reduced stuff or full equiped PCs(macs..). Today taking 1-2 high speed machine would release a wand full of those, in earlier time so fast CPUs.

The only way would be to change all the hardware every some month and increase the number of CPUs set to a project(s).

Now a new "problem" rises, the problem of multiple supporting of project.

Yes this is very right, at seti you get the most return of investment for the
cycles spend.
With supporting several project the theoretical speed is also cutted down.
Thats might so much people are just taking 1 project and crunching like a *ell for it.
Many brave fellows are home PC users only. We don't have the luck, to
sit in a company an (abuse?) the company's Hardware for free.

Well a position or a huge amount of stones, what can be done with it?
nothing basically. They are just numbers and even virtuel only.

What still there? the joy, the honor, the pleasure to talk with the same addicted persons worldwide and sharing a hobby wich can be counted to be really exclusive. I guess much more persons are more interested to fishing or climbing rather DC.

In your case Paul, I can imagine, to collect all the "boincstuff" around and hosting it (with a lot of time spending there) will offer you a higher satisfaction than the xyz-ing of credits.

You are offering knowledge and help, thats more worth than stones.
Other people will find other ways to contribute to the "science";)

Finaly the joy and the tech tech around is a amazing landscape.
A landscape not limited to boinc. This is offering the fredom to have the choice to do what else the mind will play.

Due we are passing the lower amplitude of "boinc stability", it was putted in other threads, when one project is suffering, the other project are taking the same path and are showing us, they can be "unstable" also.

Some day ago instead of attaching to boinc projects waht I don't have the mind or the hearth for, I stated a little wit folding@home (non boinc) and with the amazing seventeen or bust (primes). They also have nice, nearly online stats and a relatively small comunity, so even we as small crunchers, we can see our "numbers" climbing. As menioned, I see them only as numbers.

The fun to do Distributed Computing is outside of ranking.

The question can be asked: how many is enough?

Alternatively instead of getting a new full featured client, you could go to holiday to your dauther and spend a goot time there

And it will be summer, outside the bird and more are singing, people are used to wear shorter cloth and spend more time outside.

It's to hot inside with all the cpus running...


happy cruching what ever your projects are, what ever your client versions is.

(there will be at least 2 gaming station coming out this year, one has a 3 core heart, the other a 7 core. This is just for gaming in high definition graphics, so the core question will keep us busy a while)
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 8065 - Posted: 13 Jun 2005, 23:50:37 UTC
Last modified: 13 Jun 2005, 23:51:44 UTC

> In your case Paul, I can imagine, to collect all the "boincstuff" around and
> hosting it (with a lot of time spending there) will offer you a higher
> satisfaction than the xyz-ing of credits.

Well, it would ... but the reading rates are abysmal for the payback ... but, i really did do it for myself and the fun of writing it ... but, looking at the use rates is depressing ... heck most of the hits in the WIki I will bet are me doing page lookups and minor edits ...

But, yes, I enjoy the community for the most part and this does get me out of the house so to speak ...

How many is enough? Well, I have never planned to go over 25 ... the most I have had at once is 10 ... and changing one or two a year keeps me pretty current.

My last computer was the Dell dual-Xeon 3.4GHz and I really do like its production ... so ...

I was leaning towards doing another PowerMac, but with Jobs sticking it into my ear ... well, I will likely use this as my work station for most things till it is obsolete ... I don't think I will buy the current PowerMac G5 as a new/upgrade to be my work station if the line is changing to a PC based in a year. So, I am leaning towards another dual-Xeon right now ...

Oh, and I am still proud of the PowerMac and it is fast enough ... and when I was doing PHP code it was a great and still is a great way to do that. With the WIki, it is not as necessary to have an independent testing web site ...
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Message 8066 - Posted: 14 Jun 2005, 0:32:09 UTC - in response to Message 8064.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2005, 1:10:40 UTC

>
>
> Yes this is very right, at seti you get the most return of investment for the
> cycles spend.
CPDN is by far the highest...look who is highest in total boincstat numbers its most cpdn some seti mixed in...they went from 75 credits per trickle to 95 now far exceeding all other projects ... believe the consistency of the #s allows it to outproduce seti by at least 3-5%
> With supporting several project the theoretical speed is also cutted down.
> Thats might so much people are just taking 1 project and crunching like a *ell
> for it.
> This is why I love LHC I now devote 100% when we have work but can easily switch and support other projects in downtime...another personal "challenge" to do this efficiently hence the fun in juggling boinc if not for projects (which if for me anyway) but for the fun of the challenge
>
> And it will be summer, outside the bird and more are singing, people are used
> to wear shorter cloth and spend more time outside.
> Well... guess it depends where ya are ric... here in south Texas outside is 100F+ everyday (at least the heat index if not close in temps) The birds are dying not singing lol and no one is outside... they all stay in in thier comfortably cooled homes (as long as you can afford the juice), along with thier puters cooled very sufficiently (wink wink)
> It's to hot inside with all the cpus running...
>
>
>
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Message 8068 - Posted: 14 Jun 2005, 2:24:32 UTC

and on a side note Paul... I urge you to check out 2CPU.com's many informative articles and users on the subject of optimizing yourself :) maybe we can help you enough ,you join our team (wink wink)
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 8070 - Posted: 14 Jun 2005, 3:59:46 UTC - in response to Message 8068.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2005, 4:00:55 UTC

> and on a side note Paul... I urge you to check out 2CPU.com's many informative
> articles and users on the subject of optimizing yourself :) maybe we can help
> you enough ,you join our team (wink wink)


Well, in the past I did not join teams as I was not wanting to, ahem, advertise for one over the other. Nor seem to endorse any.

My luck with trying to "optimize" my systems always seems to cause more troubles than I can cope with. Heck, I have never gotten an optimized client to work for SETI@Home yet. It must just be me, but the places that offer the enhanced Science Applications don't seem to have an install process that I can make work ...

Probably just me. And as I have a very low tolerance for disruption in my life ... well, it is just not worth it to me. So, I use the stock clients, I don't overclock, I just try to buy faster computers when I feel like I am falling behind. Of course, this may just be my depression wining out over the medication ... :)

Anyway, I will look at your site ... but likely stay single ... mostly because I still have one system that has only one cup, so I probably don't qualify on that score... and it is not going away for awhile ...
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Message 8071 - Posted: 14 Jun 2005, 4:12:05 UTC - in response to Message 8070.  

> >
> Well, in the past I did not join teams as I was not wanting to, ahem,
> advertise for one over the other. Nor seem to endorse any.
>
I'm very sorry for you that your "position" keeps you away from the fun of being on a team. I mean Boinc is many things to many people ...its not ALL about the science and or stature of the individual ...but it IS about individual choice which EVERYONE should have the right to excercise and Paul it IS fun being on a team... I went seti teamless in classic since I had joined in 2000 and round about it was cpdn got me here in Boinc and being on teams have made it a much more enjoyable experience ( whether its my team or not)
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Message 8072 - Posted: 14 Jun 2005, 7:15:35 UTC - in response to Message 8071.  

> > >
> > Well, in the past I did not join teams as I was not wanting to, ahem,
> > advertise for one over the other. Nor seem to endorse any.
> >
Hey, you're in the "LHC TEAM". You're doing LHC@home (when there's work). You're posting in the forum. (Very welcomed). Why bother?

I have a team of 2 members (including myself). As I wanted to make some statement where my other interests are. Not to run extra competition within the team. Some teams I know have 10% active users, who give 90% help in running the project out of which 60% leave sooner or later.

Paul, stay the way you are... It's just fine! :-)
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Message 8073 - Posted: 14 Jun 2005, 9:22:40 UTC

CPDN is by far the highest...look who is highest in total boincstat numbers its most cpdn some seti mixed in...they went from 75 credits per trickle to 95 now far exceeding all other projects ... believe the consistency of the #s allows it to outproduce seti by at least 3-5%
===========

Yes, CPDN gives a very good return for your time spent processing WU's, but you have to consider the amount of computers some of these people are running also.

Some of the people at the top of the total BOINC Stats have so many computers that they could run any Project and still be at the top of the Total Stats Lists.

Even though I've managed to stay in the top 200 Total Project Stats with just only 7 PC's through sheer consistency by running them 24/7 I still feel the little guy doesn't stand a chance. It must get very Dis-Heartening at times for some people with only 1 or 2 PC's to see themselves fall futher & futher behind the stats leaders at any project or even total project stats also ...

@Paul, you have always done a fine job posting things, and I always read your posts with interest to see what you have to say ...


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Message 8074 - Posted: 14 Jun 2005, 14:26:22 UTC

@PB; Yeah, that is kinda where I am ... I have been bouncing around 245 to 250 ... I should go over a million Cobblestones this year ... and I too only have 7 computers.

@ jrenkar; Well, it does not keep me totally away ... :)

My day usually follows this pattern (if I am lucky), wake up, read e-mail, go through the 5 production projects in the "Crunchers Corner" forum (or whatever it is called by the project) trying to answer questions, and gathering statistics using a screen scraper (though I have not done much with the gathered data yet), spend the remainder of time working on my site - LUNCH, 9AM-11AM - work on site, re-run the forums ~2PM, wife comes home and we do things that couples do when they have been married a long time (she watches several TV programs, and I having a low tolerance for stupidity and comercials read and listen to my iPod).

So, my "work day" is spent mostly doing BOINC ... writing about it, researching it, and watching it ...

@sysfried; I am not likely to change ... over 50 now and pretty well settled into my habits ...
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Message 8100 - Posted: 17 Jun 2005, 3:58:54 UTC - in response to Message 8073.  

> It must get very Dis-Heartening at times
> for some people with only 1 or 2 PC's to see themselves fall futher &
> futher behind the stats leaders at any project or even total project stats
> also ...

HeHe... Some of us don't care about our standings. :)

I personally am a BOINC whore, and just attach to every project I can find because I'm fascinated by the concept of distributed computing. This of course spreads my single system out pretty thin, and I'm never going to get very high in the rankings at any project. But to me, the fun is just participating.
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Message 8116 - Posted: 18 Jun 2005, 23:29:27 UTC - in response to Message 8100.  

> ..because I'm fascinated by the concept of distributed computing. This of course

There are some nice DC project outside of boinc
but


got this LHC work a couples of minutes ago.. there is hope ;)






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Message 8121 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 21:47:15 UTC - in response to Message 8116.  

> There are some nice DC project outside of boinc

Yeah, but I really like being able to drive multiple projects from one application. That and the fact that BOINC deals with switching projects for me. :) Manually turning different projects on and off sucks...
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Message 8132 - Posted: 20 Jun 2005, 10:16:53 UTC - in response to Message 8121.  

> > There are some nice DC project outside of boinc
>
> Yeah, but I really like being able to drive multiple projects from one
> application. That and the fact that BOINC deals with switching projects for
> me. :) Manually turning different projects on and off sucks...

That is why when I first started in DC projects I finally settled in on SETI@Home, it was the only one that seemed to work without a huge amount of "hand-holding"... All the rest seemed to crash all the time, which for CPDN meant no progress on the models. And, with the PCs of the day, the one year deadline (or was it two then) was matched by the computers nearly taking that long to do one.

I mean, I think SETI@Home was 30 something hours per WU then ...

But, one of my computers caught a small stack of work for LHC@Home now ... and has started working on them ... oops, two computers have LHC@Home work in progress ...
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