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computezrmle
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Message 40484 - Posted: 17 Nov 2019, 10:46:10 UTC

Theory vbox and Theory native have different requirements

Theory vbox
client OS: either windows or linux
VirtualBox: must be available and activated
CVMFS client: doesn't care

Theory native
client OS: must be linux (there's no CVMFS client for windows)
VirtualBox: doesn't care
CVMFS client: must be available


While the BOINC client can tell the server which OS is installed and whether VirtualBox can be used it has no option to tell the server anything about CVMFS.

Plan classes are a method to offer different app versions under the same app id but the decision which app should be send is made on the server.
Their main objective is to find out which app version runs fastest on a given client and automatically prefer that app.
This doesn't mean that the server completely stops sending tasks for another app version.
Instead it will regularly send others to get benchmark results.

The idea to fake benchmark results on the client using app_config.xml will not work as <flops> isn't a valid option inside app_config.xml and will simply be ignored:
https://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Client_configuration


The only setting that can be made client side is whether VirtualBox is on or off but it has already been stated that this affects all projects running on the same client.

ATLAS uses a weird method to "misuse" the server side beta app flag in combination with the VirtualBox flag but as already stated this is a global setting per venue and affects other subprojects (SixTrack beta) running on the same server/venue.

A workaround to define separate venues and to run extra clients concurrently is limited by the fact that the standard server doesn't allow more than 4 venues.


Long term (reactivating LHCb?, introducing ALICE?) the best solution would be to allow more venues (see primegrid) and to introduce individual preferences per subproject (see einstein).
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Profile Ben Segal
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Message 40485 - Posted: 17 Nov 2019, 11:06:32 UTC - in response to Message 40484.  

Tiny correction:

“Theory vbox
client OS: either windows or linux”

...or Mac

Many thanks computzrmle for your great knowledge and faithful support of LHC@home!

Ben
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Message 40487 - Posted: 17 Nov 2019, 11:37:22 UTC - in response to Message 40484.  

and to introduce individual preferences per subproject (see einstein).


I agree with that.
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Message 40490 - Posted: 17 Nov 2019, 14:43:49 UTC - in response to Message 40487.  

and to introduce individual preferences per subproject (see einstein).
I agree with that.
Or the way WCG does it.
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computezrmle
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Message 40491 - Posted: 17 Nov 2019, 16:14:28 UTC - in response to Message 40485.  

Tiny correction:

“Theory vbox
client OS: either windows or linux”

...or Mac

...

Ben

Thanks.
Sorry to all I didn't mention.
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Profile Ray Murray
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Message 40492 - Posted: 17 Nov 2019, 22:48:06 UTC

I only have 1 Linux host which is now getting a mixture of Theory Native 1.01 (native_theory) and Theory Simulation 300.02 (native_theory). The other 2 hosts are Win10 so can only run vbox tasks.
I don't watch them all but it can be useful for ones that look as if they may be running too long to be able to look inside to check whether all is well or to intercept a Sherpa that wants to run for 6000 days. With vbox tasks all that is required is a simple click on Show Console but with native tasks one has to check which slot it's using, wade through directories, putting in password twice along the way to get to the logs or use a Terminal to get there using comutezrmle's command line
I know which option is easier for me and would like to be able to choose to retain that option through a tick-box in Preferences rather than having to resort to app_configs or other potentially overcomplications.
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Profile Laurence
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Message 40495 - Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 9:04:30 UTC - in response to Message 40484.  

ATLAS uses a weird method to "misuse" the server side beta app flag in combination with the VirtualBox flag but as already stated this is a global setting per venue and affects other sub-projects (SixTrack beta) running on the same server/venue.

I will investigate using a run native option in the project preferences.
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Message 40498 - Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 9:55:33 UTC - in response to Message 40495.  

I will investigate using a run native option in the project preferences.

Thank you Laurence to make -native Theory useable for the future.
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Message 40504 - Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 15:21:07 UTC - in response to Message 40495.  

There is a new option in the project preferences Run native if available?. It is not quite working as expected.
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computezrmle
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Message 40507 - Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 15:56:50 UTC - in response to Message 40504.  

There is a new option in the project preferences Run native if available?. It is not quite working as expected.

What does if available mean?
If Theory is checked
- run Theory native app instead of Theory vbox (even if vbox sofware is installed)?
- run Theory native app beside Theory vbox (if vbox software is installed)?

If checked, does it send Theory native to windows hosts?

Can a linux host (temporarily) be blocked/banned if N consecutive tasks fail due to a CVMFS error.
N should be much smaller than the usual 500 tasks that are allowed to fail per day.


Same for ATLAS?
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Message 40509 - Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 19:17:01 UTC

I have Unchecked the Run Native box and that host didn't request Native although I won't know if it will request vbox tasks instead until current cache runs dry (2 running, 1 queued), however, the "If no work for selected applications is available, accept work from other applications?" box is checked. Editing the prefs shows it Unchecked but on Update to save refs, it reverts to Checked so I'm unsure whether that setting has Set or not so it may still get Native if no vbox are available.
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Message 40512 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 5:58:12 UTC
Last modified: 19 Nov 2019, 5:58:37 UTC

Project-Server show for native more than 400 tasks available.
But since 1:30 UTC get no more Downloads.
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Message 40514 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 7:14:07 UTC

native Theory (1.01) have work again, thank you.
New -native Theory (300.02) is integrated to Applications for Theory.
How can we control this?
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Profile Laurence
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Message 40517 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 9:50:44 UTC - in response to Message 40514.  

How can we control this?


ok, I think it is working now. So if you want to run native you need to check the Run native if available? option in the project preferences. It should behavior as follows:

Not checked, No VBox = No Tasks
Not checked, VBox = VBox Tasks
Checked, No VBox = Native Tasks
Checked, VBox = Native Tasks

Note: That is is only for Linux and does not affect any other platform. If this works fine, we can make this work with ATLAS.
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Message 40518 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 9:55:22 UTC - in response to Message 40507.  

There is a new option in the project preferences Run native if available?. It is not quite working as expected.

What does if available mean?
If Theory is checked
- run Theory native app instead of Theory vbox (even if vbox sofware is installed)?
- run Theory native app beside Theory vbox (if vbox software is installed)?

If checked, does it send Theory native to windows hosts?

See this post.

Can a linux host (temporarily) be blocked/banned if N consecutive tasks fail due to a CVMFS error.
N should be much smaller than the usual 500 tasks that are allowed to fail per day.

Yes, there is a check_punitive option in the validator. We check for error strings and reduce the maximum number of jobs per day to 1 if there is a systematic error such as not having CVMFS installed.

Same for ATLAS?

We can do the same fro ATLAS once everything have been confirmed to work for Theory.
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Message 40519 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 10:28:34 UTC

FTM we get native Theory(1.01). Is this so long there is work available?
Or need we a Wipecache, Reboot of the Linux or Reset of the project in Boinc to activate native Theory (300.02)?
Is Test-Application in Preferences needed? native Atlas need it also.
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Crystal Pellet
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Message 40520 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 10:53:10 UTC
Last modified: 19 Nov 2019, 10:55:55 UTC

Linux host:

Preference - Theory Simulation
VBox installed - No
Run test applications? - not checked
Run native if available? - not checked ------------ I got no task

Preference - Theory Simulation
VBox installed - No
Run test applications? - not checked
Run native if available? - checked ------------ I got a Theory Simulation v300.02 (native_theory)
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Message 40521 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 10:58:10 UTC - in response to Message 40519.  
Last modified: 19 Nov 2019, 11:05:10 UTC

FTM we get native Theory(1.01). Is this so long there is work available?

I have just stopped new tasks so you will keep getting them until the queue is empty. I think that the scheduler prioritizes apps that you already have downloaded.

Or need we a Wipecache, Reboot of the Linux or Reset of the project in Boinc to activate native Theory (300.02)?
Is Test-Application in Preferences needed? native Atlas need it also.

No, the native app is out of beta, you just need to check the Run native if available? option.
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Message 40522 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 11:06:02 UTC - in response to Message 40520.  

Linux host:

Preference - Theory Simulation
VBox installed - No
Run test applications? - not checked
Run native if available? - not checked ------------ I got no task

Preference - Theory Simulation
VBox installed - No
Run test applications? - not checked
Run native if available? - checked ------------ I got a Theory Simulation v300.02 (native_theory)


Great! Looks like it is working as intended.
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Message 40523 - Posted: 19 Nov 2019, 11:29:15 UTC - in response to Message 40522.  

Linux host:

Preference - Theory Simulation
VBox installed - Yes
Run test applications? - checked
Run native if available? - not checked ------------ I got Theory Sim 300.02 (vbox64_theory) as requested 8¬)

So app selection looks to be working, however, I have set
Max # jobs = 4
Max # cpus =1
I used to get up to 4 tasks, running 1 core each, on this 2-core host (which is the configuration which has always worked well on it) but today I only get 1 task at a time, (event log says No tasks available) leaving the other core idle.
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